Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
I'm having a lot of fun playing this new book! I'm experimenting different heroes setups, magic heavy lists, full cavalry armies, shaggoths etc etc.
But I was actually wondering if there's a way to make a solid list to attend tournies.
How can Chaos deal with Vampire counts with 18\19 power dices and manfred....stubborn demons with a bloodthirster...teclis with 12 power dices on his own....and so on.
I'm not of those people who attend tournies just to win, it's not an obsessione for me at all xD But I definitely want to have a chance against top armies.
I'm simply not managing to come up with a decent setup against torney-staple armies, and that's quite annoying >__<
There's so many options in this book, i'm probably not mixing them in the right way.
Any help will be greatly appreciated!
Well to start you need:
You need something to intimidate your ennemy from turn 1. You could take knights for this but dragon ogres are pretty good too.
- 1 or 2 rockhard units of infantery,
- screening units/ expendable units
- magic defensive/offensive
You need a nice unit of infantery. The best guys for this role will of course be warriors.
Doesn't matter what you equip them with (in my opinion shields work best if you don't know what you'll be facing.). Take a unit of 2 or so of about 12 warriors so that if you lose one you'll still have one left.
You'll need something to screen those expensive soldiers of you. For this I would take warhounds but you might want to consider a unit of marauders to fill that core choice you got left.
And now magic. If you take a wizzard lord a lv 2 sorceror with 2 scrolls you'll have enough dispel dice and enough power dice in your turn. in my opinion this isn't really reliable. You might want to consider a really cool and deadly lord and 2 level 2 wizzards. Both with a scroll, one with a power and the other with a spell familiar. They will give you a total of 4 dispel dice and 7 power dice wich should do.
Hope i helped you
not to sure about the rest but i can pretty much mash my freinds teclis army
a. get a three-some of scorcerors along these lines
sword of might
book of secrets
b. get some charriots
c.a couple of unit of warriors and a couple of units of maruaders (horced or otherwize)
d.fast hard hitting element eg. knights, dragon ogres, shaggoth or giant
i think thats about it...
other than a warshrine
Last edited by warhammer madman; November 23rd, 2008 at 13:19.
Well if he's going to take Mannfred, you might want to consider taking Vilitch - besides being a great caster, he gets the lovely bonus power/dispel dice from failed castings. If you figure in your dispel scrolls, Lvl 2 wizards and such and law of averages for his failed castings (out of 18 and if he's casting Invocation on 1 dice, you should be looking at plus 5 or 6 dispel dice), you should be good to go.
Additionally - I run Mark of Tzeentch on my characters - Pandemonium is a killer on high magic armies. If you take Vilitch, your guaranteed to get it. Combine that spell with the Transmogrification spell - you can effectively shut down his magic phase and decimate his low leadership units. If you really want to get sneaky, get Infernal Puppet running - modify all of the double miscasts into really nasty stuff.
It seems like you're mulling over the magic phase more than anything else - I'm gonna add another vote for Vilitch. Add in Pandemonium and an Infernal Puppet and you can make your opponent's magic phase tough indeed.
As a note, there is NOTHING as sweet as causing a 6 on the miscast and getting off an Infernal Gateway on your opponent's turn.
Trust in your core choices - love them, hate them, wish them dead to clear charges, but remember that come end they will pull off a miracle for you.
magic like anything else in this game is just one phase. and if your opponent chooses to put a lot of his points into dominating that phase, let it happen. If you ask me setting up a list to get 18 power dice says one thing and one thing only- that list is completely one dimensional.
This may sound crazy but I wouldn't even have any sorcerers in your list. no dispel scrolls, nothing that will cost you points for competing in a phase that your gonna get beat in, no matter what. that brings us to what exactly you can do to win...
Magic is fickle and the more he casts the more likely he will miscast. even if he gets ALL of his spells of the bottom line is that your main plan should be march across the field and get into close combat. trust in the basic stat lines of your troops that they will come out on top.
I'm not gonna lie, if he knows how to play, your gonna get hit hard, i mean HARD. but all he's gonna have ( if you play right) is about two turns to do so . after that your right into CC and now you got him sweating bad, cause all those points he's spent on nasty magic sorcerers, has kept the size of his army down, which makes less people you have to kill.
this game is all about balance. If you lean to one side too much a smart player WILL turn you one dimensional.
So to answer your question here's what I would do- try to have at least 3 solid infantry units of about 20 guys. One of them should be warriors, the other two marauders with the mark of khorne. Don't give the marauders any armor, its a waste of points. instead give them an extra hand weapon- marauders with 3 attacks and are immune to fear terror and all that (frenzy). This will be the backbone of your army- solid and simple. after that go ahead and put any other nasty units that chaos has.
but here's the trick- keep the units small. (5 man unit of knights, 3 man unit of dragon ogres), The more targets he has the more spread out his magic, the more deluded the damage. I would also recommend a lot of warhounds as they can be used to screen spells that need line of sight. march them up the field and smack your opponent right in the mouth.
Just stick with your plan- don't panic in the first couple of turns when he's stomping you with spells. Just sit back a smile, cause the clock is ticking for him and that inevitable chaos charge will come. if you make the right choices, you'll crush him.
I once played a wood elf player, that had set up his list for 19 power dice. he had a longer magic phase than my whole turn. for 3 full turns he murdered me with magic, while i marched across the field. I didn't even deal him one casualty in three turns. by the time I reached him he had killed 75% of my army. For the next three turns I proceeded to crush him in close combat, charge, kill, overrun, kill, overrun, kill, overrun. I destroyed 80% of his army which gave me a marginal victory, marginal, but still a victory. Good luck.
I'm slowly falling in love with marauder horsemen with flail and mok...so cheap, 10 S5 hits and 10 S3 hits...ouch
They have such a long charge range that it's even hard for the opponent to force them to charge where he wants, since they usually have several targets.
Aparta from that, I mostly agree with the close combat discussion. Today I tried to write a list (helped by a friend who also plays chaos), and I had no casters at all. Four tzeentch heroes on disc, 3 units of horsemen with flail+mok, 3 heavy cavalries...that's it xD
There's one main problem though...Chaos is an Elite army. It usually relies on few powerful units, which is a problem against shooty\magic armies. Some spells can simply kill a whole unit of knights in a single shot, as well as some warmachines.
Screening expensive units doesn't usually work...in every gaming table there are 2 hills ç_ç
Speaking of tournaments, how is it possible for a full close combat Chaos list to defeat the Dark Elves unit of doom with 4 shooty Assasins and 4 heroes ? Any target within 18" of it will be removed from the table, any unit charging it will die of Stand & Shoot, charging with 2 units means one will die from S&S, and the second one with the Assasins striking first with hatred and always wound on a 3+, multi charging with 3+ units is almost impossible.
I only managed to defeat them with a magic tzeentch army, simply casting spell n°1 with one dice to avoid miscast....but I wonder how could I deal with it if I had no casters at all.
The advice your asking for is impossible to give because there will always be some Achilles heal for an army. Now I'm gonna shut down your theories a little so don't take my criticism the wrong way. I'm just trying to help.
No doubt that dark elf assassins are nasty. But they also have many weaknesses, like TOUGHNESS ELF (3). Come on man, your basic warrior wounds them on a 3+. Your solution to the assassin unit is charging them with multiple units!? why? No need. The chaos warriors are the best all around infantry in the game. how big is the unit? small elite units are easily beaten in the combat resolution phase by bigger units, without having to match them in wounds dealt. You see what I'm saying?
This dark elf unit is probably small an elite, so make sure you hit them with a unit that bigger, that has more ranks, that has a good armor save. Try a 20 man unit of warriors with the mark of Nurgle, making them harder to hit.
And just for the record anybody that puts four heroes in one unit is an idiot. you can tell them I said it.... they can come play me anytime.
Having four characters in my opinion is stupid ( no offense) to have in your whole list, let alone one unit. That's basically a power-gamers move. characters don't win the game, man. tactics does.
You said your worried by stand and shoot reactions... Make your units larger. Chaos IS an elite army, but that doesn't mean you can't have alot of guys. Marauders and chaos warhouds help with that. how about marauders with the mark of nurgle. now their stand and shoot is -2 instead of -1.
One thing that concerns me with your post is that you said you made a list with 4 tzeentch heroes on disks. Now those models alone cost about 600 points, but i can bet that you gave them all magical goodies and gifts of the gods, bringing them to about 800 and change. Dude, thats half the points of your whole army.Why? Why so many heroes. one's fine, maybe two. On top of that you said you had 3 heavy calvary units. no wonder you don't have a lot of models. Dude, you have to stop the urge the cheese out your characters and units, trust that the basic chaos unit is better than any other unit in warhammer.