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I've played 40k for the last three years, and my gaming group is finally starting fantasy. I played guard for much of my career, and alas... It's an uphill battle regardless of how finely I tune my army. I don't want a repeat with this new game system.
1.I have a few chaos units, but I've been mulling playing vampire counts instead (I do love the undead). Which is more effective? With chaos I was planning to play a slaaneshi esque force (I have a champion and two warrior regiments) as my main opponent plays tomb kings and it seems like shutting down fear would be hilarious.
2. Depending on which you think is more effective, what kind of units should I get to start out? Zombies as core, or are ghouls a better purchase etc.
If you are new to fantasy go with what interests you and inspires you. At the end of the day thats the one you'll finish, paint and get the most enjoyment out of, win or loose.
There is no such this as a more effective army.
Unfortunately I have to disagree. As of now VC is still one of the top armies in fantasy, especially if you go with a magic heavy, IoN spam list. They are way more effective than armies like OK and some of the older armies that haven't been updated yet.
That being said, I am starting up WoC. I really think that with the new army book, WoC have some of the best heavy infantry, Fast Cavalry (Marauder Horsemen with flails anyone?), and heavy cavalry around.
They both are really good armies. What clinches it for me though is cost, I am making an effective 1k army to start out, with nothing more than the battalion and two hero's (Exhalted Hero and Sorcerer).
"I am the architect of fate!"
*ahem* Moving on to comments of the more serious persuasion, I think that the main difference between armies is the skill level of the general. Some armies are more user-friendly (like DoC, VC, Dwarfs etc), whilst others require more skill (WEs, OKs, TKs etc). If you're a good enough general, it shouldn't really matter too much what army you use.
For the most part I agree that an armies effectiveness is mostly based on the general's level of skill. However, I don't feel that I am wrong with the opinion that certain match-ups are a lot harder for some armies just based off of what the army can bring. Now I am not proposing that all armies should be equal. It makes sense that some armies specialize in things that other armies are weak against.
However, use this as an example. At my gaming store I witnessed a game between IoN heavy VC and OK. Both players are quite good, however I feel that the OK player might have been a bit more skilled (he is the store owner and has played fantasy forever). In this game of relatively equal skill, the Ogre's got trounced even with their mobility and immunity to the undead's fear.
I am not whining about VC or anything, I don't refuse to play against them and have even had several really fun games against them (though the IoN lists can get a bit boring). I just think that until every army is updated, VC are indeed more effective than certain other armies (assuming both generals are of an equal skill level).
I think that in a choice between the two, its up to you since they are both good armies. Do you want an army of the undead that can continuously be brought back, that hinges on your vampires. Or do you want an army that everyone fears hitting their lines, that has great armor and stats, and that has some very nice and fluffy rules (The chaos gods bestow gifts for slaughtering enemy champions).
"I am the architect of fate!"
See, competetiveness is the fluff tie breaker. I like both armies.
So vc counts is the more competetive? What is a good starter army? A vampire, 2 boxes of ghouls, and then three boxes of zombies? I'm very new to the fantasy mindset.
VC is very competitive against many of the un-updated armies, but so is WoC. Against each other I think it would be a pretty even match.
I guess it means you need to flip a coin if you like both army's fluff equally. Since I honestly think they are equally competitive.
"I am the architect of fate!"
Hmm, ok i agree that when an army gets updated it gets a few extra tricks up it's sleeve but i honestly don't belive an army is more competetive over another. Certainly armies have their strengths and weaknesses, certainly VC have their strengths which while many can still be countered by any other army. But then i don't really play many tournaments but a i DO play VC alot and have done an army of them as well. They fair well against some armies and some they don't.
Alright my veiw is pretty "laa de daa all armies are equal in this nice and happy universe"
But i think, at the end of the day, how well an army works is up to the person controling it and how well they know their army and their oponents.
One question though, what on earth is an "IoN Spam list?"
Against Tomb Kings? mk of Slaanesh to get rid of fear, fire magic or te level 1 tzeentch spell, god bless flaming attacks. Take some magic missile type items to make your oponent put his heirophant in a unit. then you can corner him and erm.......yeah.
e prepared for a tough time against their magic. It's constant and always works.
An "IoN Spam List" is just that. A list that has lots of cheap resurrectables (zombies mainly, but also skellies, ghouls and other various creatures), and a LOT of wizards and power dice (all of which have the Invocation of Nehek). The army revolves around mass-raising said resurrectables, and in order to beat it, you have to plough through potentially 300 or so gribblies to get to the wizards who are camped in behind.
Invocation!! Cheers i didn't know what the abreviation meant that was all. I'm still learning all this new fangled Interweb talk.
Yeah one of the Staff at my local GW has one of those. Love fighting it. Gives me more models to kill at the end of the day.
Wont let him live down getting Manfred (hero) killed by blood curdling ROAR!
Last edited by Lord Borak; December 13th, 2008 at 13:13.