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The main opponent I play against is a High Elf Player, and hes in love with their new rules. I did decent against him before the changes to Chaos, but since the revamp I've been getting beat pretty soundly.
We mostly play 2000 point games.
I can handle his entire army striking first, its cheesy but I've been able to cope thus far, my main problem is handling his lord on a star dragon.
His typical setup with this beast is :
Lord on Star Dragon
The Lance that gives no armor saves
Some armor that gives a 2+ armor save
Some Talisman that negates any magic items in base contact.
so when he attacks in the first round (which I can't seem to live past), you are basically looking at 10-12ish strength 7 attacks, 4-5 of which always strike first and come in with no armor saves allowed, and if he gets the charge, then all come in first. In return you are looking at either a 6 toughness dragon or a +2 armor save elf lord...which admittedly isnt so hard to crack, but I've never really been able to survive his initial charge (might be bad dice rolling on my part, but thats the way its worked out so far)
I've thrown lords / heros with a Runeshield to negate his magic weapons and that allows me to survive the High Elf Lords attacks, but the Star Dragon always finishes me off. The mundane lance still hits at 6 strength and the dragon comes in at 7 strength.
I've tried a Sorc Lord with Tzneetch magic, gotten the Gateway off and had horrid luck on the srength (3's on the rolls for strength) and he is able to save all the hits. I know my rolls on them are bad, and eventually he is going to start taking some magic defense to start countering this.
My only other ideas thusfar are to take a few nurgle mages and ping away at his life with the default spell they get, or to tool up a chaos lord on a chaos dragon, but even then... I see it as risky taking on a star dragon with an ASF lord. I guess the Sorc lord is still a viable option, but relying on Infernal Gateway to get it done just seems like a crapshoot.
His normal support setup usually consists:
2ish small archer units to burn up core choices
2 bolt throwers,
2 units of dragon princes 6wide
a medium sized unit of Phoenix Guard or Swordmasters
assorted heros: usually a mage and 1 or 2 hero level melee chars
My normal army consists of:
Either a tooled up lord or Sorc Lord
A mounted hero or sorceror (opposite of the lord)
2 units of hounds for screens
2 units of maruader horsemen for bait to setup charges
2 units of marked up knights for hammers
1 large mauarder block with a hero for combat res and as a tarpit
1 unit of either Dragon Ogres or Chosen for an additional Hammer
I've just hit a bit of a brick wall on how to handle this guy, in this last game we just played he just seems to run all over me. With his flying he seems to be able to get flank charges on my knights at will, and he 1 rounded both units (MoN + Banner of Rage on one, and MoK on the other) this game, along with killing 2 dragon ogres on the charge and a solid 10 marauders with his breath weapon.
With him weighing in at over 600+ points that I can't crack, its hard to even break even in a 2000 point game, as all 3 games we have played recently his lord has come through unscathed and more than gotten his points up.
Any suggestions from others who have romped high elves or at least have some suggestions for handling this guy (ie feeding him huge blocks of marauders, blasting him with an hellcannon etc).
Thus-far we have not been playing with special characters, as he calls the Chaos ones over-powered and cheesy (ironic I know). If we do start playing with them, I'd probably end up facing Teclis instead of the Start Dragon of Death....not sure if that is a better tradeoff or not. I'd like to see what Kholek would do to him, but if he knew he was coming, it would be a sure thing to see 4 bolt throwers too.
Would appreciate any comments or suggestions or things that have worked for you in the past if possible
Thanks in advance for your responses
I think if you used a Dragon Lord you could easily take him out. If you got the charge--which is entirely possible with equal movement--he will be a snap to kill. The Bloodskull pendant may be helpful there. You may even get a killing blow. Armour of Damnation would definately make your lord superior to his. If he can't hit, he can't kill you! Regen might help here.
Kholek would easily kill the squishy elf, and would have no problem taking out other threats while waiting to get charged by him using his lightning attack--use this to take out SM's or DP's. He will most likely stay away from Kholek if he can. And about the bolt thrower problem, try using your marauder cav to make those a non-problem or get some hounds in there to help take them out as well.
I feel your pain. I play against a fairly cheesy HE army most of the time. Teclis is a regular annoyance, and if he's not there, 4 bolt throwers are. Usually both.
No, I don't have any wool.
Hrm. What about the Armor of Morrslieb? Do you think the 4+ Ward provided by the armor would help you to survive the initial onslaught? Add a MoT and you're rocking 3+, regardless of his strength. But I suppose his talisman would negate this ...?
The lance the HE lord has is magical, meaning that his ward save would be negated. It would, however, help against the dragon.
No, I don't have any wool.
The lance's attacks are considered Magical (with a capital "M")? Like Tomb Guard attacks, for instance? Yeah, that would pretty much stuff it.
I honestly think that the Armour of Damnation will help alot here. He'll already be hitting on 4's, and he'll have to reroll those that hit, so he won't hit very often. Also, the regen item; I forget it's name, but that would help alot against this guy. Any other save other than an AS will help. You can ignore this if you get the charge, of course, but that's situational. I like to have a sure-fire way to stay alive. Maybe MoT+talisman of protection, of you're feeling cheap and dangerous. I don't remember if there are any things to give you saves in CC from the chaos gifts section of the book.
Also, all weapons from the magical items section of any army book have magical attacks.
No, I don't have any wool.
you might try adding word of agony to your lord;
D6 S4 hits with no AS before the prince even strikes can be enough to take him down right there and then since you haven't mentioned a ward save.
Sure, it's not a certainty, but it can surely help.
You could always try a Daemon Prince with Distendable Maw, but getting a High Elf to fail an initiative test seems hard work. Seeing the Lord being eaten off the back of a dragon would be hilarious though! If that won't work, maybe a level 4 Daemon Prince of Tzeench could be used to throw Infernal Gateways at him, and use the flying move to flee. A sorcerer lord on Dragon could perform the same role, except with the benefits of magic items. Cat and mouse dragons seems fun!
I haven't messed much with the demonic gifts with my lords yet, but I guess that might be worth looking into, since any true magic items he comes into base contact with are going to be negated by his talisman.
Upon further thinking, it looks like I am going to have to take a Runeshield if I plan on being in base contact, it would reduce his armor save down from a magical 2+ to probably a 4+ or 5+ depending on what kind of armor it is. We'd both have mundane weapons then, his being a mundane lance for a strength 6 attack if he gets the charge, but then he wouldn't have his "ignores armor saves" either.
If I don't get to count my magical items when in base to base with him, I guess I should at least repay the favor and make it an even fight.
I've toyed around with the idea of a manticore, with its killing blow might be able to decapitate that elf off his dragon and then deal with the dragon once I have the benefit of my magic weapons, but there is a very good chance he could cut the manticore out from underneath me if he gets the charge with his dragon.
good suggestions so far, thanks and keep em coming!
I know it sounds obvious, but if there's one thing I've learned playing GW games, it's that the rules and common sense do not always see eye-to-eye.
I guess this goes to show how many Ethereal/Demonic/Forest Spirit units I've run up against ... read: very few, and somehow it's never come up ...
EDIT: Since done a little digging, and BlackSheep is of course correct. Good to know.
Last edited by Dfred; December 31st, 2008 at 16:04.