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Well, this is my problem: what's the Archaon's armour save if he get his Armour of Morkar nullified by the Vaul's Unmaking? It should become a heavy armour or chaos armour (in the handbook it's never stated, unlike it does with armour of morrslieb and the others)?
Also, I noticed that he doesn't have a shield, but the model have it: why? It should be counted in this case (5+ heavy armour +1 mounted +1 shield)? I think not but why the hell they gave it to him?
I would say that he has chaos armour and a shield, mainly because that's what a champion of all four gods would have (and it would be pretty WYSIWYG on the model). All up, makes a 2+ save, and he can be wounded on any roll. Still not too bad for either party really.
But, I suspect this will be one of those instances the BRB talks about, which mentions you and your opponent having to come to a conclusion. Good luck with it.
This came up in my game last night.
Going with WAR, even that's hard to say due to the rules not stipulating heavy armor or Chaos armor. I mean, C'MON. It's Archaon. You gotta at least give the guy the benefit of Chaos armor, which would result in 3+ (mounted w/ Chaos armor, no shield, demonic steed). Demonic steed's do not count as barded, correct? No additional armor save beyond the usual +1 for being mounted? Seems odd, though, that the Chaos Lord to end all Chaos Lords would leave home without his shield ... I managed to argue my opponent down to 3+, but he wouldn't give me the shield.
It actually came down to the illustration in the WoC army book. Archaon is not holding a shield in it. How crap is that? As if the illustration in the army book should ever override WYSIWYG on the unconverted GW model ... unless they are planning to release a new Archaon in the near future ... impossible to tell ... downward spiral, let's just get on with it!
Glad I played this out, though. I was always under the impression that Dorghar was Monstrous, but he's not (1 wound). I almost purchased an Archaon on foot (Games Day 2004) model off eBay, thinking I could use the un-mounted version ...
Last edited by Dfred; January 11th, 2009 at 18:25.
Archaons 1+ Save counts the shield =P.
Yeah, I'd say that It's not Chaos armour. It's a dirty suit of magical armour. It would say if it's chaos armour or not in it's rules like the other magic armour.
The armour is morkar is Morkars spirit in form isn't it? If something got rid of the spirit holding the armour together then i'd say the armour falls to peices and is useless.
What are you complaining about? He's got magic resistance anyway so the chances of the enemy getting a spell off are rather slim. Plus he'll still have that dirty 3+ Ward save.
If the save counted the shield, that would also be in the rules, would it not? Where it says (includes the bonus for being mounted) or whatever, it would also say, (... bonus for being mounted and carrying a shield) or something along those lines. You can't in one breath assume the shield is included, and then poo poo the notion of Chaos armor. They both fall under the preview on RAW, one way or another.
However, I would agree with you, in terms of GW's intention, that the shield is likely included in the save. It's also likely to be Chaos armor. But who knows? ...
I'm not complaining, I'm simply attempting to suss out the RAI, interpreting the sketchy RAW. It's basically another impossible situation, relegated to d6-offs until the FAQ clears it up.
EDIT: Just noticed as well, Prince Sigvald and Valkia suffer the same issue. Their armor descriptions do not include the Heavy Armor nor Chaos Armor specification (though it does refer to Sigvald's armor as plate mail). Does this mean his armor ceases to exist if nullified? As borak says, does the armor just "fall to pieces"?
Last edited by Dfred; January 11th, 2009 at 20:15.
hmmm, I'm sure somewhere it said that the shield was included in his save. An earlier publication perhapse? Or i could just be going senile.
Ahk, Damn GW. I'm sure they do this on purpose. Thats their 'intention'
Well, He doesn't have a shield ruleswise, he doesnt have chaos armour ruleswise so if he looses the armour of Morkar he's basically a naked Archaon.
But i agree with you, who knows??? Roll a dice, 4+ you've still got armour, 1,2,3 you'll have to make an archaon wearing nothing but fluffy slippers a loin cloth and a helmet.
Heres hoping he's wearing a loin cloth eh?!
Haha, yeah. I've edited my post 5 times, flip flopping on my point of view.
I guess the same is said for Archaon, Sigvald and Valkia, if we approach it from a strict RAW perspective (and really, how else CAN we approach it, after all?) ... if their magical armor is nullified by Vaul's Unmaking, their armor turns to dust.
... naked Archaon, on a demonic steed - like the cover of a dime store romance novel.
Oh like khorne doesn't have pin ups of valkia drapped over the latest model of Juggernaught.
Please try to keep things on topic guys