Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Flails [+ hand weapon and shields]
Greatweapons [+ hand weapon and shields]
Halberds [+ hand weapon and shields]
im not sure which to choose...
GW gives +2 str, to be used when I'm charging. The rest of the time, or when I get charged I use HW+shield.
Halberd only gives +1 str, but without the strike last. So when the opponent is not as likely to inflict casualties Ill use the halberd, for the rest HW+shields.
But then again, flails have +2 str but without the strike last of the GW. But does the extra rule of the flails mean I must use it in the first round? If I get charged by lets say knight, Id want to use my shield first, and in the subsequent combat phase use the flails with my higher I value to strike first with +2str. Or do I strike last because this isn't the first phase anymore?
So; strike last after first use, or strike last if used in the 2nd/3rd/etc phase of combat.
Can I choose what weapon to use when I want to?
I'm lost, as always...
Whichever weapon you choose to use in the first round of combat is the weapon you must use until the combat ends (someone breaks, leaving a unit free to move, or is completely destroyed). So no, you cannot choose to use shields to receive a charge and then switch to flails.
Flails garner a +2 to Str on the first round of combat only. Every round after that, no bonus. You basically fight as you would w/ a HW and no shield. Flails on foot soldiers are a little hard to justify, in many cases, especially if they also have the option for GW. However, on a mounted model, where a GW only cofers +1 to Str AND Strikes Last, the flail is often a better choice.
Other than that, you have the idea. With GW, you really REALLY want to get the charge. With halberds, you can receive a charge and not waste your only potential round of striking first (though of course, you'd prefer to get the charge). The decision between using your HW/s or your halberd/GW to receive a charge is completely based on what is charging you. Empire spearmen? Use the halberds. Something more elite, with multiple attacks and a negative armor save modifier? Maybe consider your HW/s. Assuming the combat will make it past the first round, also consider your initiative versus their's, and your WS versus their's. Are you Nurgle? Will a WS3 opponent charging you drop to WS2, requiring 5's to hit? If so, halberd/GW.
I voted for halberd + HW/s. For me, it's the baseline. It's the most versatile choice, and hence the default for my Chaos Warriors and Chosen. I also pack a GW unit for when I really need to shred armor saves. I intend to have a unit of Marauder Horsemen w/ flails, and likely a Chariot mount for a character w/ a flail. I intend to playtest a unit of 25-30 Marauders with flails and/or GW, as well, though not sure how that will pan out. I don't necessarily think any particular combo is substantially better than the others, they all have their niche ...
Last edited by Dfred; January 10th, 2009 at 16:54.
BTW, Flails are not an option for Chosen Warriors (or regular Warriors)
Apart from that, the question of either halberds or great weapons also depends on the opponents you're facing. Though a lot of people will take the latter for the extra strength.
It ain't easy bein' green... :-)
I voted for halberds, not quite sure why as i'm a massive fan of great weapons but as an all rounder weapon combo halberds and shields has to be right up there. A huge save for taking the charge or against some form of super nasty unit o doom or the extra strength to knock out something monster like on the charge or against some chaff like goblins.
But really, i'm a lover of great weapons. Combats are usually won or lost in the first round of combat. Either you charge or you are charged so striking last really doesn't come into it. However the +2 strength DOES come into it. on the charge it's just horrid. really horrid. Making toddlers cry kind of horrid. While being charged you can still do some horrible amount of dammage with just 2 or 3 warriors. Theres not alot of infantry in the game that will get a save against str6.
Having a Hero in there with a halberd or something so he kills the enemy before they hit your great weapon carrying warriors is a bit mean too.
Flails on the other hand i don't really rate. If there is a 2nd round of combat to go down to str 3 on marauders and then not have a save? Uh oh.....
On hero's it's not to bad as they're str5 anyway.
Flails are only really worth it in my opinion if they're on mounted bods.
Yeah, I just realised flails are not an option for them, derp -__-
Do you have to use flails in the second round of combat? or can you drop the flails and continue with HW+shield? just like knights "drop" theyr lances after the first round.
By round I mean:
1- I charge, and attack
1- the remaining enemy models attack back.
the enemy passes his break test.
2- enemy gets to attack first, higher initiative.
do i have to use flails now? even though they dont do anything anymore? except make me suck.
2- I strike back with [Flails or HW+shields]
also, thanks for the replies!
Yes, Basically you choose what weapons you are going to use at the start of combat and you are lumbered with that choice till the end of that combat, for good or ill.
As flails are two handed weapons you wont get a shield bonus so after the initial "hurrah i get +2 strength" they're pretty rubbish..
Right. Flails are basically what you equip your mounted units with when you wanna lay some serious hurt, similar to lances. They work pretty much the same, except with flails, you don't require the charge in order to garner the +2 Str bonus (first round only, then you're stuck using a flail which basically operates like a hand weapon with no shield). Flails on foot troops are quite dubious ...
I dont think you can swap weapons mid combat. Your're stuck with the weapon you have chosen for that specific combat. Othewise you could use the great weapon when you charge and strike first, and then in the following rounds of that combat you take the hand weapons and shields to minimize damage due to the fact that great weapons strike last. That would make them severely overpowered.
"The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"
Ah yes, it's finally clear to me.
thank you for helping.
This also helps me with the problem I was having about how to equip my Marauders, I think Ill just stuck to HW+shield+light armour, and put a character in the unit for the heavy hitting.
I consider the Marauder question an interesting one. HW/s or GW? With HW/s they obviously become a more defensive speed bump unit, with the 4+ save. With GWs, they put out Str 6 with only a 6+ save, assuming light armor (5+ versus shooting, with shields as well).
My thinking is, there are so many juicy targets for an opponent to consider. Why waste a round of shooting or magic targeting mere Marauders when you can roll the dice and hope to panic Chaos Warriors, or Chosen or Knights or ... anything other than Marauders (with the exception of maybe Warhounds, who will be screening). Maybe a unit of GW Marauders would slip in under the radar. So the question is, do I equip them for longevity, using them as static combat res? Or swing for the fences with GWs? My first instinct is HW/s, as there are plenty of units in my list already capable of dolling out copious amount of negative armor save pain. What the army really lacks is static combat resolution. Which isn't to say a GW unit wouldn't provide said static res, it would simply be easier to knock their numbers down, somewhat defeating the purpose.
Gonna play it both ways with proxie models until I decide how to kit them out. I want at least one block of Marauders in my list ...
Sorry, quite a bit OT.
Last edited by Dfred; January 11th, 2009 at 22:27.