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Alright. I've thrown together a bunch of army lists. It's good fun. Heck, having gone through a multi-hundred-pound buying spree a couple of months ago, I even have enough models for most of them. However, there's a problem: they tend almost invariably to suck.
This thread is for a discussion on what makes for successful army composition. I don't want you write me an army list; I want you to write down how to make an army list.
Things like the '20/50/20/10' rule, for example. And explain your entry. If you say '20/50/20/10', then tell me why that's a good idea. Or, if you disagree with something, tell me why you disagree with it.
Let's get a definitive 'creating an army' thread going, if we can.
One question, what on earth is 20/50/20/10????
I believe he is referring to the percentage used for hero/core/special/rare
I don't have any set standards, but our special choices are the bread and butter. I usually see my special choice ending up around 40% of my army. Characters seem to be anywhere from 25% to 40%. I don't take much rare, probably less than 10% and whatever's left goes to core.
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well it depends largely on what you are facing and the type of army you like. think about our strengths and weaknessess. Sure we are tough and strong but we are easily outnumbered because of that. some players use marauders to add some bulk to the line, but i prefer a smaller force with a solid core.
i know this sounds stupid, but what has worked for me is a formation that i relate to a crab; a hard shell with my main blocks of units packed tight and knights/marauder cav/spawn on the flanks as the claws. i have found that the easiest way to prevent exposing my flanks is to hit their flanks harder and faster. i usually have 5 knights on either side to do that job.
what are you playing against primarily or is this an all-comers kind of list?
Well, how I build an army list..never had to put it on paper before, so I'll try and explain what goes through my head
- One way is to figure out what tactics you want to use. Super close combat? Magic heavy? Fast and small, or slow and numerous? These are just a few ideas, but they get the spark going. You can pick things like a spell (Gateway lists for example), magic item combos (Daemon Sword on Jugger with Enchanted Shield for example) and unit combinations (like the 'crab' eaglesmvp11 explained above)
-Pick the models that go with your tactics. Now, my Tzeentch army wants magic heavy, so a Sorcerer Lord leads the way. I throw him on a Dragon for the Breath Weapons (Which rock hard by the way) and to threaten the flanks and rears of the enemy. This is an example.
-Have a look what you're weak against. If you're Lord is out in the open and might be vulnerable to magic, pick up some magic res. If you're list is low on models, think about Marauders. In short, think of yourself as against your own army, what you'd do to defeat yourself, then cover that the best you can.
-Optimize your strengths. If you can do this while still covering up your weakness, then you've done pretty well. Basically, if you want magic, don't go for a Sorcerer Lord - go for a a Sorcerer Lord AND a Sorcerer with a Power Familiar. Don't go for one unit of Knights, go for 3. Magic items, Marks of Chaos and multiples of units are ways to make your strengths even stronger.
-Numbers. The amount of models you have, their quality, and the amount of units they create often go down as a big deal. Think about what will happen if you lose a unit or two - can you still win? Can you protect you're expensive units? In my Tzeentch Dragon example, I don't need line of sight for 5/6 spells, Do i can hide him from Cannons when I need to. Is it game over when your block of 20 Warriors is defeated by a lucky spell or something? Warriors of Chaos struggle more than anyone to get numbers into their lists, but Marauders help here too.
An example of this point I have, is a list of mine that involves 2 Hellcannons. Now in this list, I don't use the Dragon, because then I have very low Numbers. I use a Disc of tzeentch instead, but still keep magic in the list. This way, I still have plenty of models to help win the fight.
-Post it up in LO! I think the WoC armylist section is starting to ramp up a bit, and though i can't always check it every day, i try and help all those people that sit on 0 replies for so long...
Hope this gives you some ideas
Last edited by timk1111; January 31st, 2009 at 00:08.
btw i was wondering if anyone has tried a combo of the doom totem n hellcannon vs armies with low leadership units like goblins? i did this once and was able to get a unit of orcs and a unit of goblins to run off the board turn one before they even moved. also i was thinking casting pandemoneum before the shot is fired will help even more.
Though I haven't tried it, I think the issue is the amount of points it sucks up. I'd rather the extra wizard, and let Pande and the -1 to LD do the job.
Would be nice to get rid of those blocks, but often they aren't what threatens the Warriors anyway, and I'd rather point it dragons and things, as they are the biggest threat.
i guess the last issue with it is the risk of it becoming useless against Daemons or undead. When facing these guys, all your expensive banner does is generate an extra wound when casting Transmog.
I tried it once, Im saying once because I havent had a chanse to do it more . But when I did I really liked it. Put fear causing units in there, Trolls and knights are killer.
Als I suggest a lvl4 with lore o death, for that -3ld spell and plenty of dammage spells.
Stick your bsb in the front where everyone can see him (I put him in my Trolls. Your opponent will shoot at them, and they will get stronger.)
I posted a list somewhere. Im to lazy to search for it myself (just woke up) but its called something like: you suck at LD list.
Lots of good information in here so far. That combination of Doom Totem/Hellcannon is interesting. I thought of a similar one, which is a Level 4 Daemon Prince with Tendrils of Tzeentch and Diabolic Splendour alongside a Doom-Totem-toting BSB on a Disc of Tzeentch. There's potential there for some mass-running-away of units. The combination of Pandemonium (-1 leadership) plus Diabolic Splendour (-1 leadership) plus Doom Totem (-1 leadership) plus Terror (from the Daemon Prince) is awesome. You don't even need to actually fight/hit/attack anyone. You just have to fly both your BSB and your DP right smack in front of a low-leadership enemy unit and say 'boo!'
I'll look into that list you mention. See if I can pick up any tips from it.