Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Wanted to get the take of some other people out there who have any experience playing versus high elves...
Do you find that MoK'ed up Marauder horsemen are worthwhile to take at all if you know you will be facing a shooty high elf army?
Main reason I ask is that last 2-3 games, I don't think a single unit has made it to the high elf lines without being totally obliterated by shooting. The usual culprit is a bolt thrower shooting the "spread" that seems to always hit and kill on at least 5 out of the 6 shots
I've had others get picked apart by lines of 10 archers.
Taking them cheap with MoK to try and be mini hammers but the lack of armor save seems to make them fire magnets.
I've screened them with hounds a few times and the hounds get shredded just as easily and then the horsemen die the next round or two. This last game I set my 2 units of knights up behind the horsemen to at least protect the expensive units, and both horsemen units were dead by the beginning of the 2nd turn.
It might just be the type of high elf player that I'm usually facing, he mostly sets up in the back 1/2 to 1/3 of the deployment zone, usually 2-4 bolt throwers, an archer block or two, 4ish units of 6 swordmasters and 1 big unit of phoenix guard, 4 heroes in total, one with a reaver bow on foot, a mage hidden in another unit with a killing blow lord (these are in the Phoenix Guard unit), and finally a BSB in a block of spearmen who has that stupidly annoying +d6 combat resolution banner.
This player will normally not even move at all, knowing to do any damage to him I have to come to him, he will also never charge except for his swordmasters. He prefers to shoot as much as possible and rely on his army wide always strike first to thin out my front rank, or in the case of his spearmen, get an extra rank of attacks in defensively. If charged by chariots he usually flee's.
Mark of Nurgle is a dream versus him, but I'm begining to think that Marauder horsemen and to a lesser extent normal Marauders are not even worth the few points they cost, they literally get shot to bits. I took about 90 repeater bolt "spread shots" with a strength 4 and a armor save of -2 this last game....my warriors and knights did fine, the marauders fell by the handful.
With the squishy-ness of the elves, I'd love to get them into combat, but thus far I'm 0 for 6 in getting them to the High Elf lines, with or without screeners and 0 for 6 in them seeing turn 4. Maybe its worthwhile that he shoots them and not something else? No idea on that.
Anyone had different experiences with MoK'ed Horsemen with Flails and to a lesser extent Marauders against shooty High Elves or am I just beating my head against the wall with it?
Let me get this straight, your complaining that he is shooting your cheep marauder horse units rather than your expensive knights???
not complaing he is shooting the horsemen instead of the knights, but I am just wondering if anyone has much luck getting them into combat against a highly shooty army, doesnt even have to be high elvesWith the squishy-ness of the elves, I'd love to get them into combat, but thus far I'm 0 for 6 in getting them to the High Elf lines, with or without screeners and 0 for 6 in them seeing turn 4. Maybe its worthwhile that he shoots them and not something else? No idea on that.
if I wanted cheap screens I'd go for hounds @ 30 points versus 3.5 times that amount in Horsemen to get the same blown up effect. Hounds don't do much if they do get to the opponents line though, and won't cause near the destruction that MoK'ed Flailed Marauder Horsemen do, but if neither unit makes it there, then hounds are way better to loose.
The spread shot from the bolt throwers pretty much bounces off nurgle knights, its the one big shot that you have to worry about with them as it negates armor save.
So like I had asked before, does anyone else have much luck getting Marauder horsemen to the opponents line when playing a shooty opponent?
I always bring an all comers list, so I'd never leave my khorne horse at home, but next time you play this guy, grab 4 big units of nurgle knights and ram it down his throat.
Just my personal taste here, but I find marauder horsemen weak. Unless fielded in large number or as part of a cavalry army, I will not field them.
Now if I had a unit of marauder horsemen and nothing to hide them behind, I would deploy them behind my infantry unit as a reserve unit to flank stuff. I would only let my warhounds and chaos knights make the spearhead attack. Hmmm, now that I think of it, why don't you hide your horsemen right behind your knights and double charge the enemy (you would need to put a model on the side at the last minute to see the enemy).
Have you tried a Slaanesh sorcerer, Titillating delusions would work well against the bolt throwers (make it a lvl 4 + spell familiar + power stoneS). When you move it, try to specify a point in front of another bolt thrower! Muahahahah! (laughs hysterically)
Last edited by dapredator66; February 14th, 2009 at 06:24.
Personally, the horsemen job IS to die so that the rest of the army can have a field day on my enemy's army. The point of making them MoK+flail is that hopefully they'll bring some down along with them.
Of course, that is because the rest of the army is composed of Chaos Knights and Dragon Ogres. So even if the horsemen go down, the rest of the army can still beat the crap out of the pointy ears. Except maybe for the RBTs, I have mortal fear against them
+Nice idea on Titillating Delusions on the RBTs. Worth a try.
Currently building my poor-hammer WoC army.
Yeah, the more I think about it, the more it seems they just get in the way. Even if they do hit the HE line, the best thing they could run into would be PG and even then you are looking at a crazy ward save...
Swordmasters or Spearmen wouldn't be a good matchup for unarmored Horsemen and I'd be hard pressed to get lucky enough to always face archers on the charge. All those attacks with no armor save and 3 toughness....I guess in hindsight its just asking for trouble.
Probably the idea of screening the horsemen with the knights is something I should try. My knights usually go through unscathed and they could deliver the horsemen right there.
If you were going against an army that didn't all strike first they might be worthwhile if they get there, but the chances of crawling the whole field with all those arrows flying and no armor and then still have to get attacked after charging means you'd probably be lucky if 1 in 5 made it there....100+ points for a single MoK'ed Horsemen and his frenzied horse doesnt seem too good of a bargin.
Could use those 2 Horsemen units and maybe field a hellcannon, at least something to have a chance to put some pressure on his back lines and maybe force him to not bunch so tight if nothing else. Doing something in the shooting phase for once might be kind of fun.
Basically we're saying against a shooty High Elf list the horsemen suck. However, they are insanely great against brettonians/ogres/lizardmen/o&g/ect.ect.
They're the closest thing to perfect for 105 points, but I guess nothing is perfect. Oh well, I'll just have to gateway that PG unit into the chaos realm.
Just let the Horsemen (and warhounds) die under fire, while your other units (Chaos Knights, Ogres, Dragon Ogres, characters) can march unscathed and cream the pointy-ears the next turn. Bring a pair of chariots along -- they're gold against ASF Elves.
On other occasions:
Horsemen do well as flankers and warmachines hunters in an infantry heavy army.
In cavalry heavy army, they provide nice distraction for the enemy (along with warhounds).
Currently building my poor-hammer WoC army.
How many points are we talking here? It sounds like 2000pt game hmmmmmm ...........
I think trying to run 2-3 blocks of nurgle knights with the hound screen just for shooting will do, but also try to make your warriors nurgle, but dont worry about your marauders as they are always guna die (Ive used a 2000pts marauder force as I though this might work and I was wrong and alot of it died very quickly).