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MoN makes you 1/6 less likely to get hit, on attacks that are ws N/2 and N+1, where N is your weapon skill, and also on shooting attacks.
MoT makes you 1/6 less likely to take a wound on all attacks, including magic and other attacks that deal wounds automatically, minus screwball attacks that deny ward saves.
MoT costs less. The choice is clear.
Here's a situation:
Strength 4 ranged attacks that hit you on 4s normally. 24 shots hitting you on 4s. That makes 12 hits. Wounding you on 4s. That makes 6 wounds. 6+ ward save saves 1, 5 guys die. Now with nurgle you have 24 shots hitting you on 5s. That's 8 hits. Wounding you on 4s. That's 4 wounds. 4 guys die.
Oh course that doesn't count against magic or doesn't count in armor saves, but its situational. I'm almost tempted to just not mark my knights.
Logic! Reason! My old nemsi!!
I am vanquished!!!
No no- the point being made is still valid. The example given is a narrow one. Sure, you lose 1 more guy against that kind of shooting. Similarly, you lose one more guy against hand to hand. However, with the difference in marks being 10pts, and the difference in casualties being 1 man, I'd go with the MoT.
Reason? simple- what about CC attacks that are already of higher WS? The least you can hit on is a 3. And only a rare few opponents have a high enough WS to do that*, and it doesn't help us whenever we're striking them anymore thanks to the FAQ. Shooting yes, it will help you. Hand to hand, 40KEnthusiast is right. And against magical attacks that hit without WS or BS, the MoT is certainly better.
*ws4 is average, so most enemies would be rolling ws3 vs ws5 and still need 4's to hit us. Against ws3 opponent's, it's worth it, as they are rolling ws2 vs ws5 and would need 5's to hit, as in the shooting section.
Pinkus has it with "it's situational" the -1 to hit wont work on cannons, nor on any scatter weapons where as the Mark of Tzeentch will.
Other than that i'm thinking along the same lines as Mr Sarathai
Yeah, I was argueing nurgle is better, just saying its situational. I personally like keeping my knights alive from shooting and I think nurgle provides a better benefit. I already have 5 dispel dice and a scroll, so I can stop medium magic most of the time. The big thing about WS3 is that alot of the big baddies are WS5. Kroxigors, stegadons, ogres. The guys with good strength. It helps against then, specially since I like using my knights in the role as monster killer.
But math doesnt consider tactics and strategy. Isnt the mark of nurgle more effective to play with? We are choosing the enemies for our warriors so that our strengths are matched against their weaknesses. In that sentense I think that our Nurglitch friends might have the upper hand.
"The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"
MoT is consistently useful. MoN is situational. MoT is good. MoN is better IF the circumstances are right.
So, take your pick. Good all the time, or better some of the time.
I intend to have at least one Nurgle unit on hand more often than not. They can be justified. In the majority of battles, there's sure to be a specific use for a solid unit of Nurgle Warriors or Knights.
That said, I feel for the guys who are halfway through painting their mono-God, Nurgle themed WoC army. Like a kick to the junk, that FAQ.
Last edited by Dfred; February 25th, 2009 at 23:46.
The Blessed of the Four
By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes.
Let's not get carried away. If you agree that tzeentch is better or not, let's not start calling it "good all the time." Its only a 6+ ward.
Tzeentch is my favorite mark because it does work on everything. What does your opponent usually hit your knights with? Perhaps I'm unusual, but I usually see Warmachines and Magic, neither of which are affected by Nurgle. Bows usually fall on my Warhounds and Horsemen, with good reason.
As far as melee - practically the times Nurgle will do much at all are rare indeed. WS3 and WS6 - The Number of WS6 units I can count on one hand - Chosen, Swordmasters, Bloodknights, maybe? - and if you insist on wasting your knights on a WS3 unit they shouldn't be hitting back, period.
The bottom line is this - the MoN is situational and even so not fantastic. The MoT works on every wound you take. On a unit of 5 knights, you have a 5/6 chance to make at least one save - making the MoT worth at least 5/6 the cost of a basic knight, 33 points. For 20 I'll take it every game.
Trust in your core choices - love them, hate them, wish them dead to clear charges, but remember that come end they will pull off a miracle for you.