Welcome to Librarium Online!
I posted this first in the Army Lists section by mistake, so here we go again...
I only have a few games under my belt (just started playing a month ago) and I'm having some serious difficulty not getting completely massacred every time. I only play friendly games versus my friend and he has a pretty heavy shooty dwarf army. I try using warhounds and marauders as meat shields, but he just mounts his organ gun and bolt thrower on a hill and shoots over the heads at my chosen and demolishes my chariot and everyone else worth shooting.
Are there any overall tactics when WoC are such close combat fighters and my opponent doesn't even move on the board? He just shoots and waits until my half dead units charge him. I tried loading up on 2 sorcerers but the dwarfs seem good at resisting my arcane magicks.
Is the trick to do a heavy cavalry army and hit them fast and hard? Is there any way to protect my chariot from that blasted bolt thrower? When I do hit him with the chariot it tends to do the most damage of any unit in the game. For some reason I haven't used Knights because they seemed too expensive to be shot down instantly.
A lot of questions I know, but I'm tired of having three times as many figs and losing everyone.
Tzeentch Knights w/ Blasted Standard rock a 4+ ward in the shooting phase. They would make a mess of his warmachine line. Start at one end and overrun. Also, mount a Tzeentch Exalted on a disc and and give him the Golden Eye of Tzeentch. Again, ward versus shooting. You can zip him over their stunty heads and be stuck in against his arty crew in turn 2. Just be careful of the Anvil of Doom, with it's cheese-mo undispellable target anything anywhere nonsense.
Also consider using Wulfrik with a unit of either MoS or MoK Marauders (either mark, to ignore the inevitable panic test as every warmachine pivots to unleash on you). MoN might also be worth it, if the majority of his shooting is BS based.
Indeed, the key is speed. You need to start neutralizing his warmachines ASAP. You need to get into combat as quickly as possible. If you're fighting, he can't target you with shooting.
Protecting a chariot from a bolt thrower is really terrain dependent. And, does he always have a hill in his deployment zone? If so, why? Is that the standard setup you guys tend to use? If you're using randomized terrain placement, try to grab the hill first and put it in no man's land. Deny him the hill, if at all possible.
Last edited by Dfred; February 27th, 2009 at 23:52.
The Blessed of the Four
By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes.
I'm definitely going to use the tactic with disc and start using knights as well. I use alot of marauder horseman because they're cheap, but they all get shredded pretty quickly. The disc can move up to 20" per turn correct? The main book seemed to say one thing and the disc's stats another. I really like that idea of zipping in and nailing his heavy artillery.
The way you italicized 'always' is making me second guess his insistence on having hills. He says if there's no hills than it's too one sided toward me, but i'm realizing now that his way it's always one sided towards him! We play on a 4'x4' area, what's a good mix of terrains to use? The book made it seem like you couldn't put terrain smack dab in the middle of the board, am i wrong there?
When it comes to a regular 4x6 board, the BRB (Big Red Book) states that no terrain may be placed within 12" of the center. However, that leaves quite a bit of the flanks available for no man's land terrain placement. But no, you cannot place anything smack in the middle, unless you've mutually decided to ignore the terrain placement rules in the rulebook. Good mix of terrain? Some forests, a hill, maybe some obstacles like fences or hedges. Buildings are always fun, as are rivers and bridges.
When you shrink to 4x4, there's no hard and fast rule. The book suggests no more than 3-4 pieces of terrain. When it comes to the terrain placement restriction, my friends and I tend to reduce the distance to center accordingly. As playing on 4x4 shrinks the field by 1/3 lengthwise, we also reduce the 12" to 8" lengthwise. We end up with a diamond shape in the center, in which no terrain may be placed. This is a house rule, though. By letter of the law, no terrain is to be placed within 12".
Yes. The disc moves 20" because it can fly. It's ground movement, as seen in the profile, is a pathetic 1".
Last edited by Dfred; February 28th, 2009 at 00:57.
The Blessed of the Four
By the pricking of my thumbs,
Something wicked this way comes.
Tell the dwarf player to cry a river infront of his units, that would make it difficult for you to get to him, that aughtta rile up some real war-like feelings
Chaos Warriors (2009) 16-4-9
If he wins the roll to place scenery first and does grab a hill there's nothing stopping you putting a forest "on" the hill... Just remember though that you also roll to see who picks what side they enter from so you want to get a nice stack on either flank to protect your advance and that hill he placed maay end up being your hill if you win the roll for sides.
What I've been trying lately against gunlines is surgeing 1 flank with knights and dogs, he's only got a unit or two who can fire at them for range purposes and angle which may kill a unit or 2 of dogs but the knights will be hitting his line right after the dogs die if you time it right with your marches. I normally deploy my knights last into a decent cover possition behind the dogs or at least nearby so that they can take full advantage of the cover and advance in step with the dogs.
Usualy this will send one flank into complete dissaray while he tries to move his forces to stop you walking down his gunline annihilating his units along the way which you can then take advantage of with your infantry down the other flank, or even in support of your cavalry. Just remember that if he's using thunderers they can move OR shoot, not both so if he has to turn and face you he can't fire that turn so flank charges are your best bet. His guys with crossbows are only BS 3 so will be hitting you at long range on 5's or 6's for nurgle (short range is 12" and your charge range is 14"). On the advance try to move firstly with your knights 26" away, he shoots and kills a few dogs so no big deal, you then advance again to 13" away (you need to be damn hot at guageing distances so make sure to practice guessed ranges) at which point he may get some shots at the knights but not many, and hopefully you still have a dog shield to cover you that turn so you can charge his line on the next. The only problem is war machines but with decent placement of cover terrain and denial of a hill he will get little to no use from them.
Last edited by Lone99; February 28th, 2009 at 01:55.
I'm definitely hitting him with the 'cry yourself a river' line, as someone that loves to talk s**t, that's probably the best advice so far! We're trying to play once a week against each other, so it's going to be a bit before I can try this stuff out. I'm trying to swing a Sunday rematch if possible, so i have some time to mull over all of these tactics.
I didn't see how many points you were playing in your original post, but if it's at least 2k, try out a Sorcerer Lord with the Lore of Heavens. All of the spells will be useful to you in some way, but if you take a spell familiar you have a very good chance at Celestial Shield. Combine that with MoT and you should be laughing at his guns the whole way. Protip: if you take a second wizard with the Third Eye, you can ward 2 units at once!
Trust in your core choices - love them, hate them, wish them dead to clear charges, but remember that come end they will pull off a miracle for you.
If i've said once i'ce said it probably twice.
HOUNDS!!! they're brilliant for blockiing off his lines of sight and harassing him from turn 2 onwards. Even hounds can jump on lone artillary crews and have a decent chance of eateing thm or atleast typing them up in coombat to save your prized warriors getting some hurt.
Against Dwarves, Sometimes i Just leave my Wizards at home and buy the extra troops. For each wizard you can get a unit of Ogres with Great weapons so against Dwarves it's sometimes funny when he's spent alot of points upgrading his units with Magic Resistance lol.
Other than that, these boys seem top notch with the advice
But yeah, About the hills. I see that as a bit cheesy. What i generally do is either let one player set up the board and the other pick the board edge, Another way you can do it is to Write down on bits of paper what terain peice is on it, then you pick a point on the board and pick out a bit of paper. That way it's totaly random and no one can complain.
Ive played dwarfs a couple of times with my WoC and both have been successful (though he does not use a gun line, still 2 organ guns and a cannon ) I try and leave my cavalry placement till i know where the organ guns are going then put every peice of fast moving hard hitting dwarf killing units there.
So with 2 units of 5 knights 2 units of hounds and a unit of frenzied fail horsemen stood in front of his artillary he panics and leaves all my warriors alone, ok the dogs die, the maruader horsemen die, the knights hit the artillary and wipe them out.
Then those units wheel about and flank or rear the units of hammerers and long beards as my warriors hit in to their front.
So my advice is charge the organ guns with everything tht moves more then 6" tht you have and something will arrive to hit them. If not.....well hey quagmire the dwarves to death with 3 level 2 MON mages
Hills in the middle of the board make the game much more interesting, same with forests, you tend to fight the whole game on the flanks and run around in circles.