Cpt.S is doomed for spawndom: where did I go wrong?! - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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  1. #1
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    Cpt.S is doomed for spawndom: where did I go wrong?!

    I just headed up to another local 1,999pt tournament yesterday, and played a good 8 hours of Warhammer. You guys voted for me to take my Chaos list to the last tournament, and I had to back out, so they featured this time. I took a list which I was fairly confident in (posted below) and I actually got rolled. Hard. I finished 8th out of 14. It was NOT my best tournament day. The thing is, looking back, I can't see where I could have done "better".
    Here's my list, and brief overviews of my three games.

    Level 2 Sorcerer w/ power familiar, MoN

    Level 2 Sorcerer w/ conjoined haemonculus, bronze armor of zharnak, spell familiar, MoT

    Wulfrik the Wanderer

    10 Warriors of Chaos w/ shields and additional hand weapons, standard bearer, champion, mark of slaanesh

    10 Warriors of Chaos w/ shields and additional hand weapons, standard bearer, champion, mark of slaanesh

    11 Marauders of Chaos w/ light armor, flails, mark of khorne

    10 Chosen w/ halberds and shields, champion with book of secrets, standard bearer with banner of rage, mark of tzeentch

    5 Chaos Knights w/ standard bearer, mark of khorne

    5 Chaos Knights w/ standard bearer, mark of khorne

    Warshrine
    Round 1 vs Dwarves:
    Opening round was a basic Pitched Battle scenario, except that there were no points awarded for table quarters, but rather, players sought control of a stone circle in the center of the field.
    My army slaughtered the dwarves with ease. He had 2 cannons, 2 bolt throwers, and an organ gun for shooting. Thankfully, the organ gun kept misfiring and spent all but a turn of the game inactive.
    The shooting bounced off the majority of my men, although a unit of my warriors and my Nurgle caster were caught in a very effective crossfire on the objective, leaving just my unit champion to hold it.
    My Chosen were lucky to get the +1A from their initial EoTG, and then my shrine gave them +1S before it was wiped out. When I realized that I was so uber, I forgot all about the halberds and just went with the 3A, S5, Sv2+ chosen alone. They took on a unit of longbeards, and my knights thrashed the flank of his IronBreakers which held 2 of his heroes.
    Wulfrik didn't show up until late, and when he did, it was just enough time to take a round of shooting and then call it a game. He did scare the Volleygun crew so badly that they messed up and blew their own machine apart though in a misfire
    This game a was a solid massacre, and the only game which I won.

    Round 2 vs Dark Elves:
    Round 2 was a basic pitched battle, except that we had 3 patches of fog between the army, that moved at the start of every player's individual turn. The fog ONLY blocked LoS.
    The game started well- the Hydra trying to work my flanks was routed by a unit of knights, and my other unit of knights held out against his general on a manticore and eventually ran him down with only 2 men remaining.
    Unfortunately, the Ring of Hotek and a miscast killed 4 of my warriors before I even got into combat, and when the fog that had blocked literally our entire armies from charging, cleared on the ELF's turn, it all went down hill. I took ASF Blackgaurd in my warrior's faces, and my Chosen were tied up by the encroachment of some Dark Riders and Cold One Knights.
    Wulfrik showed up to intercept some Executioners moving on my flank, and the frenzied marauders routed the pansy elves. But didn't catch them. Wulfrik left to run back to the thick of the fighting, and left the marauders to deal with the executioners on their own. They charged again, and that's when the DE player sprung a devious Assassin on me, who practically cut the unit apart on his own.
    His cold one knights got the drop on my Chaos Knights, and after a turn of combat, routed the unit. They also fried my Warshrine. My chosen were killed as well, but not before seeing off the Dark Riders who'd hit their flanks. I was left with a unit of warriors, my tzeentchian sorcerer/general, Wulfrik, and half a unit of marauders.

    Round 3 v Darkelves
    I played my third game against another tournament regular, Matt. He's a very friendly guy who usually nails the 1st spot every time, but is very modest and very helpful. Games against him never feel like a tournament, although this one was pretty rough.
    We had hills this time which caused terror. I wasn't thinking, and placed them in my own zone, knowing that most of my army was immune or wouldn't be fleeing. I hoped to force him to come to me and suffer terror. I forgot that he likes shooting and magic so much, and could just stay away from the hills. My army was bottlenecked between the hills, which was nice because it kept him off my flanks, but that didn't matter when he hit me. He hit my warriors with a chariot, and an assassin that appeared from- and subsequently left- a unit of crossbowmen. I killed the chariot and routed the assassin after several hardfought rounds. I took a Hydra and Manitcore to the front of my other warriors unit and they were utterly demolished. One of my units of knights was killed on the first turn by the top Lore of Metal spell. The other unit killed a unit of crossbowmen, but was then shot/magicked into the ground by the rest of the army. My chosen were facing off against Cold One Knights and while they held on for the duration, the Hyrda finished them off in the flank.
    The Manticore retreated, while the Hydra took out my cart.
    When Wulfrik finally showed up, I set him on the table facing the rear of the hydra. His unit was taken on by the Cold One Knights though, and they were routed from the table.
    The unit of warriors, who had been fighting the assassin, pursued him, but caught him along with 2 other assassins. The unit was butchered in short order.
    -----------

    I left the day feeling alright about the games, but curious about the army. The pairings had been 100% random (my friend, a DE player, went against the only other 2 DE armies, and Daemons. He finished last sadly), but none of them seemed like pushovers, the way they had when I was using my VC. Matt even admitted that he had been afraid that my VC would be returning, and even had a trick or two in his army that was intended to kill my Vamps in particular, since we'd been duking it out for top spot last competition.
    I asked another player there (who didn't participate) how his WoC were working. He said that he was running all khorne, so he was already doomed to failure.
    So I'm wondering: WoC are a nice, balanced, fair book. But is it the book that cost me the tournament, or just a bad list/tactics? I mean, tactically, I still can't see what I did wrong. I was always outnumbered, and against elves, it was by 2-1! The plate is to blame for that, but I doubt marauders would have faired much better.
    I'd like to use my WoC as a tournament weapon, but they seem to have a bit of a dull edge. What do you guys think?

    oh and if anyone's interested, the placings I can remember were
    DarkElves(matt), Empire(easy opponents), Daemons...darkelves.........me....empire.........lizardmen, darkelves(last, hardest opponents)

    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

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  3. #2
    Champion of Chaos Pinkus's Avatar
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    279 (x7)

    You'd do better if you didn't face 2 cheesy DE lists I'd think.

    I think you have too many small units and nothing that can take a charge. I rarely use khorne except on my horsemen, so I can't really comment further.
    US Master's Midwest Advisor.
    Come join me at my GT this September www.brewfestgt.com

  4. #3
    Senior Member Hurtinator's Avatar
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    "I think you have too many small units and nothing that can take a charge"

    I think this is bang on, as well, did you play conservatively with the chosen or have them wade in heavy right from the start, I find I have more luck with them making a dent If I throw em all-guns-blazing at something big.
    Chaos Warriors (2009) 16-4-9

  5. #4
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    I would agree that the army was too small. I think that's the downfall of the entire book. Had I taken some more marauders in the army, I could have maybe had a single large unit of warriors, and a few more blocks on the field, but I doubt that the marauders would have served as anything but a speed-bump.

    My chosen against the Dwarves waded in and started crushing skulls like they were made for it. But against the Elves, I have to admit that I was overwhelmed by targets.
    The first player was really fast and featured very little shooting and no magic. Cheesey as it is, I should've positioned my force on my back line and magicked him as he came close (except for that damn Ring of Hotek) and I'd have been safe from rear charges.
    Against the other elf player, I didn't need to move at all. I did, all the units advanced, but he was so fast that he got the drop on my entire army.

    I will admit that I could've saved some points here and there. Light Armor on my Marauders was a poor choice when combined with the flails. A 6up save and they were toast from the birth.
    The added handweapons on my warriors wasn't too hot, seeing as I spent most of the game hunkered down behind the shield, since I was afraid of failing a 4+ save on such a tiny unit.
    I might also knock out Wulfrik. He's a cool idea, but if he doesn't show when you want him to, he can really hurt. He had almost 250pts worth of my army tied up all game because he was still carousing on shore-leave. The most competitive opponents are come-to-you armies anyways: VC, DoC and good DE armies.
    I'm debating dropping the Book and MoT on my Chosen as well, in favor of the Collar.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  6. #5
    Senior Member Hurtinator's Avatar
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    Waiting for them to come to you is not cheesey nor is it counter-fluff as many whiners claim it to be, and when you play a foot slogger army, it's in your best interest to sit back and let them come to you!

    Don't forget that Wulfrik doesn't HAVE to come into the battle using his longship, you could place him in a unit of warriors at the start of the game and name his favoured target as something pretty big (like a caster lord or a large target) and send them in! He's the ultimate character killer!

    As an aside, an option you might consider trying on the chosen champion is Bronze armor/favor of the gods. That way you can modify their original roll on the EoTG's table AND he becomes quite a bit harder to kill, even by most hero level characters.
    Last edited by Hurtinator; March 2nd, 2009 at 05:13.
    Chaos Warriors (2009) 16-4-9

  7. #6
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    Bronze Armor is tied up on my Tzeentch Caster with the Haemonculus. He gets to add a D3 to his casting value then test for stupidity. The armor makes him immune to psychology...
    I was hoping that this character would make getting/casting Gateway more helpful, but it never worked out quite like that.

    The EoTG reroll might be nice though,
    Pts Values for AoS here!

    Nippon Armybook: Isuu, Scribd, and free at Google Docs

  8. #7
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    2052 (x8)

    Bad luck Captain S.

    Personaly i'd ditch the Khorne Marauders in favour of some hounds, Just so you don't get shot to ribbons and outmanauvered. Either that or swap them for a unit of horsemen to put the pressure on the enemy. Khorne horsmen with flails are a nasty little suprise and when put next to knighs most people will shoot the knights and not expect the same threat from a bunch of naked blokes on ponies.


    I'm With you on the Wulfrik. He's expensive for what he does, especially when all he really has is a hand weapon and shield. I'd just go for a Hero on mount. he'll be on the enemy on turn 2 where as Wulfik would be lucky to be on them in turn 2. If you're not going to place wulfik in a marauder unit to use his special ability. You might as well take an ordinary Hero and build him how you want.

    One question though. Imune to physchology. This used to mean everything in the old book but i've been reading the rule book and it only refers to Panic, Fear, Terror and an inability to Flee. Can you point out to me where it says they are imune to the affects of other/all physchology?

  9. #8
    Senior Member Coorran's Avatar
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    ItP

    Quote Originally Posted by lord borak View Post
    One question though. Imune to physchology. This used to mean everything in the old book but i've been reading the rule book and it only refers to Panic, Fear, Terror and an inability to Flee. Can you point out to me where it says they are imune to the affects of other/all physchology?
    That's right, it doesn't confers any protection against stupidity.
    "How do you stop a Chaos Knight from charging? No seriously, HELP!" André le Bouffon, jester of the Bretonnian court - last words.

  10. #9
    Champion of Chaos Pinkus's Avatar
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    Yeah, that's the problem with the army book, all our good stuff has too nasty of a penalty. Being stupid on Ld.8 is not worth it and there's no way around it. They sperated stupidity from pyschology awhile back. If you're stupid, you're stupid, no matter what.
    US Master's Midwest Advisor.
    Come join me at my GT this September www.brewfestgt.com

  11. #10
    Senior Member Hurtinator's Avatar
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    I disagree, stupidity on ld8 isn't bad at all, and thats because statistically 2d6 has a higher chance of rolling 6-7-8 due to the number of combinations on the dice that add up to that, meaning you have more then a 75% chance of rolling under or equal, well worth the bonus D3 increase if you ask me, unless you're like me and you constantly forget to even use that bonus >.<
    Chaos Warriors (2009) 16-4-9

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