few dumb questions... - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

Welcome to Librarium Online!

Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!

Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!


Register Now!

User Tag List

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 14
  1. #1
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    14
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    few dumb questions...

    A BSB can only not choose magic items if he chooses a magic banner?

    What good is a BSB without a magic banner?

    Does a Khorne army really need a magic banner? (ie BotG, Rap Stan)


    thanks in advance.


  2. Remove Advertisements
    Librarium-Online.com
    Advertisements
     

  3. #2
    Member Naedre's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Age
    33
    Posts
    44
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    7 (x1)

    1) Yes, a BSB with a magical standard can only carry mundane(non-magic) equipment. A BSB without a magical standard can wear magical equipment.

    2) A BSB gives you +1 Combat Resolution to the combat he is fighting(in addition to a regular banner, so you can have +2 for banners) and re-rolling break tests for everyone within 12". For the points, its a very good deal, unless your BSB gets captured. Then it sucks.

    3) Need? Thats a judgement call.

    I think the BoR is the best Banner we have, it is decently cheap and the frenzy never ends, but you dont need a BSB for it, just give it to Knights or Chosen. But if you use it, you shouldn't mark your unit for Khorne. Just leave them unmarked and fluffy-explain that they are so blessed by Khorne, he gave them his banner instead of his mark.

    The Blasted Standard is also good IMO, even without marking for Tzeentch. But once again, it is cheap enough that units can field it and it doesn't need to be on a BSB.

    Rapturous is cheap, and alot of people love it, but I'm not sold. And if you are using it, your mono-Khorne unit is losing its frenzy anyway, so you could be in trouble.

    And, of course, Banner of Gods is very good and very expensive. It is very much an army-defining item. It makes your hard-to-kill foot-sloggers almost impossible to break. But if you are mono-Khorne, your focus isn't tarpitting, its killing, so Banner of the Gods might not be for you.

    I recommend both BoR and Blasted in Khorne armies, and BSBs are a decent point investment even without a magical banner(and then he can take a nice magical weapon).
    Last edited by Naedre; March 30th, 2009 at 06:20. Reason: Removed point values
    "Chaos cares not for self-preservation, for reason, or for truth. The essence of Chaos is Change..." -Teclis
    Tzeentch: Change You Can Believe In.

  4. #3
    Junior Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Posts
    14
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    1 (x1)

    Thanks

    TYVM that was very informative.

    how good are juggernauts? 50 points too expensive? worth taking over 50 points of magic items?

  5. #4
    Rules Attorney BrockSamson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    USA
    Age
    33
    Posts
    785
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputation
    79 (x2)

    First, to hit the BSB point...

    BSBs rock. Take them. Try putting one on a barded steed in a unit of chosen 6-wide, give the BSB Banner of the Gods and the chosen the Rap Standard. Give the BSB Fury of the Gods (not a magic item, gives the unit MR2, sweet). Then put a combat lord in them with mark of tz, give him Chaos Runeshield, Armor of Morrslieb, Biting Blade (For magic attacks). Mark the chosen with Slaanesh so they never run, and give the full command, with favor of the gods on the champion so that the unit can reroll its free EotG stat at the beginning of the game.

    Now chargers have to take a terror check, the combat lord is nigh unkillable with a 3+ ward against all comers in a challenge and magic attacks, and the unit rerolls Stubborn Ld 9 break checks. Oh yeah, and boxcars and double fives will still pass too, making your total chances of breaking about 1 in 80. Ultimate tarpit, with a bastard of a lord at the front, and infantry that will make any comers cry.

    And they say the Daemon Plaguebearer block with a Herald is the best anvil in the game. Please.

    As for juggers...

    Definately worth the 50 pts if used correctly. I'd really only use it on a combat hero in a unit of frenzied knights... gives the whole unit MR1 and lays a hell of a smackdown for a mount.

    NEVER put a BSB on a jugger... the +3 armor looks nice on the surface, but barded's give you +2, are much cheaper, and don't require that the BSB charge like an idiot out of the unit.

  6. #5
    Senior Member 2000AD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Leeds
    Age
    32
    Posts
    459
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    55 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by BrockSamson View Post
    First, to hit the BSB point...

    BSBs rock. Take them. Try putting one on a barded steed in a unit of chosen 6-wide, give the BSB Banner of the Gods and the chosen the Rap Standard. Give the BSB Fury of the Gods (not a magic item, gives the unit MR2, sweet).
    Which would be illegal. Fury of the Blood God prevents the bearer from taking magic items, so no Banner of the Gods.

    Then put a combat lord in them with mark of tz, give him Chaos Runeshield, Armor of Morrslieb, Biting Blade (For magic attacks).
    Also illegal, 2 pieces of magic armour there.


    And they say the Daemon Plaguebearer block with a Herald is the best anvil in the game. Please.
    Except the plaguebearers + herald is a hell of a lot cheaper.
    Assuming your choice wasn't breaking the rules then it would cost 892 points and that's with just 12 chosen.

    EDIT: More in fact, forgot the magic banner on the chosen and left then with just a hand weapon

    20 Plaguebearers, with herald, completely tooled out (full command, magic banner, wizard level, mount and gifts for herald) comes to 560 points, over 300 points cheaper and with a bunch of extra stuff probably not needed.



    As for juggers...
    NEVER put a BSB on a jugger... the +3 armor looks nice on the surface, but barded's give you +2, are much cheaper, and don't require that the BSB charge like an idiot out of the unit.
    Neither do Juggers as they aren't frenzied.
    Jugger also gives you 2 WS5 S5 attacks (that's better than a chaos warrior), as opposed to to 1 attack WS3 S4, and gives Fear and Magic Res (1).
    It also moves just as fast as the barded horses so the only downsides are the increased points cost (which reflect it's benefits) and it's bigger base size.
    Last edited by 2000AD; March 30th, 2009 at 11:31. Reason: noticed mistake
    2000AD's answer to all "How do VC deal with ..." questions: Forbidden Lore + 2 Power Stones.
    Further answers will require more vodka.

  7. #6
    Rules Attorney BrockSamson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    USA
    Age
    33
    Posts
    785
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputation
    79 (x2)

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000AD View Post
    Fury of the Blood God prevents the bearer from taking magic items, so no Banner of the Gods.
    Eh, good call.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000AD View Post
    Also illegal, 2 pieces of magic armour there.
    I was under the impression that you could take both a magic shield and magic armor. That would make sense to me. But if that's not the case... that's dumb. And gets rid of a hell of a combo.

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000AD View Post
    Except the plaguebearers + herald is a hell of a lot cheaper.
    Assuming your choice wasn't breaking the rules then it would cost 892 points and that's with just 12 chosen.

    EDIT: More in fact, forgot the magic banner on the chosen and left then with just a hand weapon

    20 Plaguebearers, with herald, completely tooled out (full command, magic banner, wizard level, mount and gifts for herald) comes to 560 points, over 300 points cheaper and with a bunch of extra stuff probably not needed.
    Well, yeah, but the lord is in the chosen. It's not really fair to compare pricing at that point as our lord would eat his herald. 18 Chosen w/ shields, FC, and MoSlan is 401, and our BSB (w/o Fury) would be 276.

    677 vs. 560 ain't that bad, considering the chosen are a MUCH better unit.



    Quote Originally Posted by 2000AD View Post
    Neither do Juggers as they aren't frenzied...
    Well, yeah, except for the little asterisk that says that jugger riders have to be marked with khorne, which means their rider is frothing at the mouth real nice.

  8. #7
    Senior Member 2000AD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Leeds
    Age
    32
    Posts
    459
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    55 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by BrockSamson View Post
    I was under the impression that you could take both a magic shield and magic armor. That would make sense to me. But if that's not the case... that's dumb. And gets rid of a hell of a combo.
    Nope, there is no magic shield category, only magic armour.


    Well, yeah, but the lord is in the chosen. It's not really fair to compare pricing at that point as our lord would eat his herald. 18 Chosen w/ shields, FC, and MoSlan is 401, and our BSB (w/o Fury) would be 276.

    677 vs. 560 ain't that bad, considering the chosen are a MUCH better unit.
    Well yeah, but I only put the Lord in there because you did.

    As for the Lord eating the hearld, maybe not. The Lord you suggested has 5 attacks on 3+/4+ against the herald so probably 2 wounds, which the herald then has 5+/4+ saves against. Herald has a good chance of surviving at least one round, might even cause a wound or two as he has 3A at 4+(Poison)/4+ (Maybe with re-roll to wound Gift) and the Lords save (assuming line up of Runeshield + chaos armour OR Armour of Morrslieb plus normal shield to avoid illegal combo) will only be a 5+ armour save (-2 S modifier, daemon attacks count as magical so no ward from Morr.)



    Well, yeah, except for the little asterisk that says that jugger riders have to be marked with khorne, which means their rider is frothing at the mouth real nice.
    Good point.
    2000AD's answer to all "How do VC deal with ..." questions: Forbidden Lore + 2 Power Stones.
    Further answers will require more vodka.

  9. #8
    Rules Attorney BrockSamson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    USA
    Age
    33
    Posts
    785
    Mentioned
    1 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputationReputation
    79 (x2)

    Quote Originally Posted by 2000AD View Post
    Well yeah, but I only put the Lord in there because you did.

    As for the Lord eating the hearld, maybe not. The Lord you suggested has 5 attacks on 3+/4+ against the herald so probably 2 wounds, which the herald then has 5+/4+ saves against. Herald has a good chance of surviving at least one round, might even cause a wound or two as he has 3A at 4+(Poison)/4+ (Maybe with re-roll to wound Gift) and the Lords save (assuming line up of Runeshield + chaos armour OR Armour of Morrslieb plus normal shield to avoid illegal combo) will only be a 5+ armour save (-2 S modifier, daemon attacks count as magical so no ward from Morr.)
    Well, without that combo, both of those items are overpriced on a combat lord IMO. Morrslieb is a nice anti-shooting replacement for Golden Eye if your Sorc Lord on a Disc has a Talisman already. But as for a combat lord in rank and file? W/o that little combo, I'd probably roll him with Helm of Many Eyes (yes, I went there! Stupid at Ld 9 isn't bad), Collar, Crown, Great Weapon, Mark of Tzeentch. That's MR2 on the unit, with the hero having 5 S7 ASF attacks, and a 4+ armor, 5+ ward, Regen save. That's 3-4 wounds, 1/3 of which will wound. So at least 1 wound, gibbed if you're lucky. Attacks back with reroll wounds would be 1 unsaved wounds (2 if poison hits), with about a 28% unsaved chance. You do a wound a round, he does less than half a wound a round.

    Eaten.

  10. #9
    Senior Member 2000AD's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Leeds
    Age
    32
    Posts
    459
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    ReputationReputationReputation
    55 (x1)

    Quote Originally Posted by BrockSamson View Post
    Well, without that combo, both of those items are overpriced on a combat lord IMO. Morrslieb is a nice anti-shooting replacement for Golden Eye if your Sorc Lord on a Disc has a Talisman already. But as for a combat lord in rank and file? W/o that little combo, I'd probably roll him with Helm of Many Eyes (yes, I went there! Stupid at Ld 9 isn't bad), Collar, Crown, Great Weapon, Mark of Tzeentch. That's MR2 on the unit, with the hero having 5 S7 ASF attacks, and a 4+ armor, 5+ ward, Regen save. That's 3-4 wounds, 1/3 of which will wound. So at least 1 wound, gibbed if you're lucky. Attacks back with reroll wounds would be 1 unsaved wounds (2 if poison hits), with about a 28% unsaved chance. You do a wound a round, he does less than half a wound a round.

    Eaten.
    Which is also illegal, Collar and Crown are both Talismans.

    And also moot. I know a fully tooled up combat Lord should be able to eat a Herald for breakfast. I was pointing out that the Lord you origionally put up wasn't that good, even with his illegal combo.

    For the record the Herald would have Noxious Vapours (enemy lose ASF and allways strike last) and Soul Hunger (re-roll failed wounds) and is on a Palaquin (+1 armour save, which is useless, and 6 WS3 S3 poision attacks, also useless except the poison unless it gets lucky)
    2000AD's answer to all "How do VC deal with ..." questions: Forbidden Lore + 2 Power Stones.
    Further answers will require more vodka.

  11. #10
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Age
    28
    Posts
    242
    Mentioned
    0 Post(s)
    Tagged
    0 Thread(s)

    Reputation
    -10 (x0)

    An even dumber question from someone who is new to this game. What exactly is this BSB that people refer to?

+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts