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Hi, I don't know if I should post this here or in the army lists section but let me digress.
I'm new to the LO forums and I have very little experience with Warhammer but I decided to get back into it after a botched start with O&G many years ago. I've been reading the forums for a little while now and finally made my choice and purchased WoC!
So far I have the Army Book and the Battalion box but I'm in need of a little guidance as to where to go next. Everything still needs to be built/painted so I do have some work to do but I want to reach 750-1000 points relatively soon.
I'm thinking my next purchase will likely be some Marauder Horseman followed by an exalted hero. Anyways, just wondering if anyone has some god pointers for starting WoC!
Last edited by ForTheGods; April 7th, 2009 at 04:57.
Hi there! I'm also relatively new to WoC
You will find that you already have around a 750 point army using just the battalion models. I made a 1,000 point list using only the battalion models, with an additional model for a hero. A link to the list (with several very helpful comments!) is found below:
http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...on-models.html (1k point list using battalion models)
While my list isn't exactly the end-all or be-all, you can see that you are already *very* close of achiving your goal of an army between 750 and 1,000 points.
Welcome to WoC, and to LO.
I myself am also a fairly new WoC player, and I started off similarly to where you are now- I bought a battalion and an extra box of warriors, a couple characters and a chariot, and I had enough for a 2250 list. (Literally the battalion box plus 12 warriors, a chariot, and 4 characters- its a bit character heavy, but i enjoy it and can expand as I see fit from here)
The best advice I can probably give you is to buy what you like and go from there. Like knights? buy some more boxes of them. Want some shooting to back up your list? Try a hellcannon. You certainly want a character of some sort. I'd get one of them before anything else, that or I'd use or convert a warrior or knight model to make one.
While a lot of people might have individual disputes about the legitimacy of certain choices in the chaos army, there really is no wrong choice. The chaos army is balanced well enough that you can likely field whatever you like and still have a good time and a decent chance at winning. Try writing out some lists using things that interest you, and play a few games out in your head or on paper, or using proxy models if you have an opponent that will let you... and see what you like. More importantly, think of how you'd like to play your army and at how many points and go from there. With the battalion, you have all the essentials other than a hero, so just feel free to go wild with whatever interests you.
Marauder horsemen and a hero sounds like a good start for an expansion. Those will give your army some tactical versatility that you could end up using even if you decide not to go with a heavy-cav list.
Thanks for the responses so far!
I think I really want to employ a strategy that revolves around getting into combat quickly and doing some damage on the flanks. That being said I may want a mounted hero of some kind possibly an Exalted hero on a daemonic mount or maybe a Tzeentch hero on a disk.
For core choices I'm thinking of a solid block of Marauders with shields for CR and to act as a tar pit. Probably a small block of Warriors with shield+Halberd, 2x5 Warhounds, and 2x5 Marauder Horsemen with Throwing Axes.
Chaos Knights are one of the reasons I decided to go WoC and thus I'd probably run 1 if not 2 units of 5 Knights.
The Chariot seems quite nasty as well but it is a little bit on the expensive side points wise.
What do people recommend for the rare slot? I like the look of spawns because they are cheap and can hold up units in combat while I flank with cavalry etc. I don't see a lot of people running them in their lists and thus I want to know if they are currently broken?
Last edited by ForTheGods; April 7th, 2009 at 05:00.
A lot of people might argue that none of the rare slots are worth taking. The way I understand it, people don't take spawn nearly as frequently nowadays as they did before the new book because spawn aren't quite as good as they once were. I haven't played WoC long enough to know for sure, but I think they lost 1d6" of movement, amongst other things. Spawn's biggest downfall is their unpredictability. I still think theyre worth the points, though.
Honestly though, each rare option has its place, and none (apart from maybe the shaggoth for the point by point comparison with a unit of dragon ogres) is without merit. I personally love hellcannons, but they can be a little unpredictable, and some argue "too expensive". Warshrines can be pretty nifty, but I have yet to see them really contribute anything to a battle. I'm also a big fan of the giant (especially of the Slaanesh variety). Again, giants are a bit of a point-sink, and for something as potentially frail as a giant (no armor save, easy to hit), they do have quite a bit of the intimidation factor on their side. Sometimes, its much better to have the giant be the cannonball magnet instead of your units/characters. I've never played against a giant without being concerned for my units' safety- and with some good rolling a giant can really do some damage.
It seems, really, what most of the rare slots do for chaos is give the list some intimidating/distracting targets. For some reason a lot of my opponents seem absolutely terrified of chaos spawn, and even more so against hellcannons- even if the model doesn't do any direct damage, the scariness can more than pay for itself.
In the lists I've played the most, though, I don't use any of the rare slots. WoC are blessed with very good core and special choices, to the point that rare slots don't seem as essential as they might in other armies.
Chariots can be very good, but the general consensus is that they're best in pairs. I've had pretty good results with a single chariot. Just be conscious of the fact that they are a little random and won't win combat by themselves unless against small or frail units. I use mine as a flanking companion with my knights.
An exalted hero on a disc can be brutal. I haven't really played around with the daemonic mount that much yet (if your hero is marked khorne you can get the far superior juggernaught for the same price)... but I think if you're aiming for a mixed/fast army, you can't go wrong with another box of knights and an accompanying character. I'd be thinking about typical mark setups so that you can plan accordingly- Khorne Knights hit very hard, but can be led around by the nose by experienced players with the right toolset--- unless you have something almost (or equally) intimidating that can keep up with them.
I find Chosen are a pretty solid choice, however the eye of the gods at the beginning of the battle can make or break their performance depending what you get. You can never go wrong with chaos knights. As for rare choices, the Giant is rather good, as is the shaggoth. I like trolls myself over ogres and dragon ogres.
If a Million Guardsmen die, that's a statistic. If one marine dies, that's a tragedy.
Hey man, welcome to the forum...and welcome to chaos!
i just started fantasy and chaos mortals myself 3 months so i'll see if i can help you out a bit with my minimal experience.
it won't be hard to get a 1k army together and play some nice games. this is the fase where i am right now, playing 1k games and seeing what my army needs to perform better. the cool thing is: almost all the unit options in the armybook can be effective and used! the WoC armybook gives us alot of different possible lists to work with and different tactics to use.
-Full mounted army's! "fast and rock hard punch!"
-full chaos armour army's! "slow...but rock solid, resistance is futile..."
-magic heavy lists! "hell even our sorcerers can take most models in hand to hand combat"
-monster lists! "they're big, they're ugly and they deliver a hell of a punch!"
now not all lists are going to win you official tournements, but most of them are alot of fun to play and should make up for alot of nice games with a decent chance of winning!
Now about the spawns, i use them myself, and think their awesome and an option that most people underestimate! i love to use them as cheap tarpit units and they do their job quite well!
the only unit...in the entire book...that doesn't seem to be worth it's points and never gets used are the forsaken. but other then that everything has it's place in the book and everything can be effective.
SO here is my advice to you! get your 1k list together, play some games, find out which playstyle you like and work from there!
welcome to team chaos mate!
Thanks! Yeah the low points cost of Spawns is what initially sparked my interest as my special (and heck even core) choices are rather expensive.
What I'm trying to do right now is create a 1k list that I can put together to experiment with. I'm having trouble with my hero choices however. I'm thinking that exalted hero of tzeentch + chaos sorcerer will suffice for 1k. I don't think 3 hero choices would be feasible as it would account for nearly half of my army.
This is what I'm thinking:
Exalted Hero of Tzeentch - 185 OR 190
MoT, Disc, Axe of Khorne OR Chaos Runeshield
Tzeentch Sorcerer -
MoT, lvl 2, **not sure what to give him!**
I could also just take a lvl 1 sorcerer and make him a scroll caddy if the lvl 2 ends up costing too much.
Posting the cumulative points costs like I did above is fine correct? From what I understand you just can't list individual point costs relative to any published book.
Hm, what I do with Sorcerers is put them on a disc and give them golden eye of tzeentch to deal with shooting, as i stated before. Fly to an enemy units flank, magic it to death, move behind it, magic it again or if its dead go onto the next unit. The mark of tzeentch only works well on a lord if you give him something to boost that 6+ ward. Armor of morrisleb is a perfect example, doesn't work on magic attacks though.
You should probably give your tzeentch sorcerer, spell familar for an extra spell, or power familar/book of secrets, if you combine the latter 2 you have a level 4 wizard as far as power dice. Plus book of secrets gives you a spell from lore of fire, death or shadow.
If a Million Guardsmen die, that's a statistic. If one marine dies, that's a tragedy.
I really like the sound of the sorcerer however it brings me into a dilemma. He would cost 190 points to be kitted out as with MoT, Power Familiar, Book of Secrets, and lvl 2. Considering that I want to run Knights in my 1k list it looks as if I won't get to field a second hero choice.
Here's what I have in mind so far:
Tzeentch Sorcerer- 190
lvl 2, MoT, Power Familiar, Book of Secrets
5x Chaos Warhounds- XX
5x Chaos Warhounds- XX
20x Marauders- 104
5x Marauder Horsemen- 86
Shields, Throwing Axes, Musician
10x Warriors- 166
5x Knights- 250
So there's still a bit of wiggle room and I can probably give a mark to the warriors or something like that.
Any comments on that list? Remember that I'm still a nub so if you see any glaring mistakes please let me know!