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Thread: Two questions

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    Two questions

    Surely someone has asked before but I haven't found anything so I'll ask anyway.

    1. The EotG rule says that chaos models that can must always issue challenges. But it says that CHARACTERS can't refuse challenges. Does that mean that my champion can issue a challenge even if a character is present but that he can't accept challenges when a character is present?

    2. If a warshrine gives a chariot, for example, +1S, does that affect both the impacts and the crew? Otherwise which of them?

    Thank you


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    Member chaosmaddie's Avatar
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    #1 - the way I understand it, having a unit champion can help protect your character if you so choose. Only 1 challenge can be issued per combat, so if you have a unit with a character and a champion, then one of them is going to have to challenge...if the unit champion doesn't then the character will have to.

    You can't challenge a specific character, just one of the opposing characters / unit champions so the way I play it is that when you are challenged and you have a character or a unit champion, you can choose who to accept the challenge with. If you don't want the unit champion to, then like the part about issuing a challenge, the character must.

    its pretty much the same rule both ways, if you have a character he has to challenge anything he can, and can't refuse them. you can generate over-kill with a really killy hero in a challenge, but there may be times you would rather kill some more expensive models and have your unit champion do the challenging instead.

    #2 Odd scenario, but the way I would play it is that the impact hits remain the same strength, but the strength affects the horses and crew (much how our MoK affects mounts and crew) but I don't think it would change the strength of the impact hits. If you cast it on a hellcannon I don't think it would make the "stone thrower hit" +1 strength, but any close-combat related stuff would be.


    thats my take on them

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    1) The way I read the rules, you can accept challenges with a unit champion if you wish, since you are not "refusing" a challenge with a character, you are just accepting the challenge with another valid model.

    Just as if you had 2 characters in the same unit and that unit was challenged, only one could accept the challenge, so the other obviously cannot. This does not mean you are refusing a challenge in any way, you are just accepting it with the model of your choice.

    2) I do think that the +1S would affect the Impact hits, since the impact hits strength are determined by the stat-line of the chariot, an you are increase that stat-line by +1 across the board. I would think that your horses, crew, and chariot would all get +1S, and your impact hits would now be S6.

    I think if you got +1A, since the impact hits are not determined by the stat-line of the chariot, you would not get D6+2 impact hits. Just the normal D6+1
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    On the issue of the challenges, I would like to note the following.

    The sequence in which thing happen, very important.

    Ok, this is regardless of whether or not you actually want the character to fight a challenge, for the sake of the argument, you don't want him in a challenge.

    Scenario without a Warshrine, Character in a unit with a champion:


    You charge.
    This being your turn, you get to challenge first, and you have to do so with your character, because the champion does not have the EotG rule.

    You GET charged. scenario one.
    Your opponent now get to challenge first.
    He does so, now you have the option to accept with either the champion or the character.
    Accepting with the champion does not mean you refuse it with the character.

    You GET charged. scenario two.

    Your opponent gets to challenge first.
    He does NOT issue a challenge.
    Now its our turn to issue a challenge, and the EotG rule demands we do so with our character.

    Its all about who's turn it is.
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    Mr. Sinister Dfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maximus-Prime View Post
    Scenario without a Warshrine, Character in a unit with a champion:

    You charge.
    This being your turn, you get to challenge first, and you have to do so with your character, because the champion does not have the EotG rule.
    Actually, the FAQ puts a different spin on this. It's the very first question listed under the FAQ section, after the Errata:

    Q. Does the compulsion to challenge apply to
    all models in the army or only to models with
    the Eye of the Gods special rule?

    A. It applies to all models capable of issuing
    challenges. This means the Champions are
    compelled to issue challenges, but may not roll
    on the Eye of the Gods chart (unless the army
    includes a War Shrine, of course!). They can,
    however, refuse challenges, in a very cowardly
    and un-Chaosy fashion!

    Being forced to challenge has nothing to do with the EotG special rule. Every model in our army that can challenge, must challenge. In other words, if you have a character and a champion in a unit, when you charge or the enemy charges and declines to issue a challenge, your champion and character are equally compelled to challenge ... which is good, as you now get to choose who issues the forced challenge. Since only one challenge may be active within a combat, you get to decide who fights the rank and file and who steps up to challenge.

    When a champion and character are present in a unit, there are only two absolutes:

    1) One of them MUST challenge if and when the opportunity arises.
    2) The character CANNOT decline a challenge (the champion can).

    Beyond that, you are free. Either can issue. Either can accept. Only the champion can decline. The only effect the Warshrine has? It allows your champ to roll on the EotG chart if he kills a character in a challenge or a large target. It doesn't otherwise alter how the challenge dynamic functions.
    Last edited by Dfred; April 13th, 2009 at 17:21.
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    ah ok, I was under the understanding that champions only had that rule when there is a Warshrine on the table.

    thanks for clearing that up
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    Mr. Sinister Dfred's Avatar
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    No problem. Your interpretation was widely considered to be correct prior to the release of the FAQ. Most people believed only those models with EotG were forced to challenge. Thankfully, the FAQ corrected it, and our champions now operate much like champions in other armies ... except for the fact that they must challenge. At least now they can "protect" a character by either challenging first or stepping up to "take one for the team" (though the character cannot decline a challenge if he's alone, nothing says a champion cannot accept on his behalf). The only thing your opponent can be certain of: If there's a character and/or a champion in a unit, there's gonna be a challenge.

    At least our champions are worth their points, now.
    Last edited by Dfred; April 13th, 2009 at 22:34.
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