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  1. #1
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    By God I hate archeon

    I play high elves and I have a friend who almost always uses archeon. I have one problem, how do I kill the guy. He has MR 3, 2+ armour and 2+ ward save. Can anything kill him that's in the high elf arsenal. Not even a dragon stands a chance. I decided I would ask the people who know him best. Rep for best reply.

    Daemonic cheese-how? Well, you would need to start with daemonic milk, i guess...

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    Topic Creator Deluxe Mr_Wayne's Avatar
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    Best way to beat good armour is to throw an insane amount of low S missiles at him. Sooner or later he will fail that save. Rolls of 1 always fail. Enough of them and he's a goner. Arrows, arrows and more arrows. An extremely mobile list is needed, because if he gets in combat you're done with.
    Chaos Warriors problem is always missile fire, scouts and skirmishers. Just don't try to beat him at his own game - combat, high S missiles and magic (Archaon that is).
    "The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"

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    Member Spudles's Avatar
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    well archoan only has a 3+ ward save.

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    the sad thing is he is acctually easy to kill- take a lvl 4 w/ the book of hoerth and use vauls unmaking to start nocking off all of his saves- then introduce him to everyone's favorite swordmasters and he essentially dies. you are correct in that if you don't take care of him he can almost wreck your entire army by himself- personally if your friend is using archaon, match his move and use tecles- then you are guarenteed to get the spells you need and then some.

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    Senior Member Coorran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Wayne View Post
    Best way to beat good armour is to throw an insane amount of low S missiles at him. Sooner or later he will fail that save.
    Very later. Sorry Wayne, that won't work.

    First you have to hit. On average, with elves that's 1/2. S3 and S4 arrows will penetrate the armor 1/6. Then the ward save 1/3. Then wound him on 5+ (S4) or 6+ (S3).

    That means you will need 216 S3 shots or 108 S4 shots to cause a SINGLE wound!

    Never going to bring him down that way.

    Better is the use of ballista. Still not likely to bring him down fast, but way more practical.

    Even better is simply a huge amount of static combat res. Archaon is not stubborn. And HE strike first. Even Archaon will have trouble causing more then 3-4 wounds without using his deamonsword and wounding himself.
    "How do you stop a Chaos Knight from charging? No seriously, HELP!" André le Bouffon, jester of the Bretonnian court - last words.

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    Member oakleith's Avatar
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    Take Teclis and cast Vauls unmaking on archaon and you can get rid of his nasty ward save.
    Please don't cut me at the knees short scary giner person with a beard.

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    Senior Member Coorran's Avatar
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    Yup, and the MR on Archaon will be useless if Teclis casts it with Irresistable Force, which he does often.
    "How do you stop a Chaos Knight from charging? No seriously, HELP!" André le Bouffon, jester of the Bretonnian court - last words.

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    Member oakleith's Avatar
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    that is why he is well worth the points and the £10 for the model
    Please don't cut me at the knees short scary giner person with a beard.

  10. #9
    Rules Attorney BrockSamson's Avatar
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    First off, Archaon has a 1+ armor and 3+ ward. That's actually better in your book. If your opponent is trying to say that Archaon's Mark of Tzeentch makes it a 2+ ward, he is lying/misinformed. Archaon has all 4 marks, and they affect him in a unique fashion, as specified under his entry in the WoC book.

    Take Teclis and cast Vauls unmaking on archaon and you can get rid of his nasty ward save.
    Problem there is Pandaemonium, if the Chaos player gets it. If he's playing Archaon, it's probably at least a high 2000s game, which means the Chaos player has at least one Tzeentch level 2 mage, as well as Archaon himself. Odds are one of them gets that spell, which can make it an ugly day for Teclis.

    Even better is simply a huge amount of static combat res. Archaon is not stubborn. And HE strike first. Even Archaon will have trouble causing more then 3-4 wounds without using his deamonsword and wounding himself.
    /agree. Except the part about Archaon wounding himself... he can whip out that sword and kill fellow knights instead of hurting himself. Yes, it ignores armor, but even then, he only kills a knight 2/3 of the time (roll to wound); and against himself, he (after the ward) only wounds himself 1/6 of the time.

    But yeah, CR is the way to go. Get him to run. Although, if your enemy is running a Banner of the Gods BSB nearby (the BSB can't join the Swords, but he can stand really close), now you're talking Stubborn Ld8 rerolling breaks. Not pretty. Also, the Rapturous Standard in the knights can rain on your parade. Because Archaon allows the reroll of breaks, even if the knights are looking for insane courage only, with that banner they'll stick around 52% of the time.

    Long story short, if you're allowing lord special chars (which you are brave for doing), think about it... you're playing HE. Drop that zero (Teclis) for a hero (Tyrion). That would be a fun fight to watch. Tyrion and his band of DPs v. Archaon and his Swords of Chaos. Archaon would win of course, but at least you'd put up a fight.

    Tyrion: 4 attacks, 1.333 hits, .888 wounds, .197 after saves
    Archaon: 10 attacks, 5 hits (gibbing a buddy as well), 4.16 wounds, 1.04 after saves
    (assumption is that mounts will do nothing against ridiculous saves)

    The CR favors HE slightly actually, considering Archaon will likely gib one knight a round, but Knights > Dragon Princes in the CR department. Still, dropping the mighty Archaon to a piddly 1 wound/round is impressive. And, of course, Tyrion + DPs is cheaper than Archaon with Knights anyway, so it's all academic.
    Fear me, mortals, for I am The Anointed, The Favored Son of Chaos, The Scourge of the World. The armies of the Gods rally behind me, and it is by My Will and by My Sword that your weakling nations shall fall. - Archaon, The Everchosen, Lord of the End Times

  11. #10
    I AM the Evil Twin! Jared van Kell's Avatar
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    There is the Teclis route as mentioned before but better still you could just ask him not to be such a power gamer and take a normal chaos lord instead. Special Characters are all well and good now and then as a bit of fun, especially in larger games, but taking them all the time will get boring after a while.

    To be honest your friend sounds like they have got addicted to winning rather than having fun. I have often found that when a lot of younger players first start out they try to go for the uber characters as a crutch to compensate for their own lack of skill at the game. I imagine that your friend does not do half as well without Archaon as they do with Archaon. (This is a point you could try raising with him as a challenge to his skill as a Warriors of Chaos player.)

    The main reason they are playing Archaon because they want to win every time, all the time, as they do not like to be seen to be loosing at something. Its silly really, but ego is everything at teenage years.

    If they are anykind of friend then they will oblige you and change their list, but if they do not want to stop using Archaon then just do not play him until he does.

    JvK
    Last edited by Jared van Kell; April 15th, 2009 at 14:21.
    Basically life sucks, there is only war and you're probably gonna get eaten by Tyranids, have fun.

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