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Hey everyone, I've been running lists allot lately with blocks of 10-12 chaos warriors as per the norm it seems with this book, but I've really taken an interest in chaos trolls. Now comparing the 2 (assuming of course you have enough special slots or brought throgg so the FOC doesn't matter)
Warriors (Assuming 10 man MOS, Hala/Shield) cost the same as 4 trolls
Now I'm wondering why trolls aren't considered, at least by the more "point for point" players, the only real disadvantages I see them having is cannons/war machines can be threatening (But still better to shoot these guys than knights), the stupidity, which as block troops or with throgg in toe, you get benefits from his leadership/bsb status. The regen save is better every day of the week, and even the multiwound status is something I approve on. Trolls won't get the (potential) 1 rank that a group of 10 warrs would have, yet when someone slams into you with lances, taking your saves up to 6+ or gone, you lose 3 guys and can only attack back with 4 attacks hoping to win enough combat rez... I'd rather lose 1 troll and hit back with 9 (or even the breath weapon, guaranteeing 3 hits)
- If using halas has the same str, hand weapons -1 str
- If using halas has the 4+ armor, shields 2+save in combat, compared to ever-present regen save
- Has +2 WS
- Has -2 group "Wounds"
- Has -2 group "Attacks"
- Immune to both Terror/Panic
- Doesn't have stupidity (though in the hands of a capable general I still don't see this as an issue)
- Doesn't have access to automatic str 5 armor ignoring/magical hit
- Doesn't have access to the "roll on the table" that trolls get
- Only has a 4 movement, compared to a 6
Is it just the models themselves, because I can't see tourney players, more concerned about min/maxing stopping over something like that. Or is stupidity (or even just the idea of trolls) really that big of a wrench in the works? Thanks for any input, I'm almost to the point of starting to scratch sculpt my own, so would love to read some opinions while I work.
Personally, I love Chaos Trolls, and I know that for me, on paper they seem like a really good idea. Obviously have to babysit them, or invest in Throgg, I think the latter is better for the obvious multitude of reasons. Sadly I can't say that I actually have used that type of list though, so they might not be all that in practice. Though I did see a game a few weeks back where with some solid EOTG rolls they became very nasty fast.
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I don't play WoC but play against them regularly. My guess the reason why more people don't take Trolls is Dragon Ogres. They cost a few points more, but have an extra wound, attack better stat line, don't have to be babysat and are immune to lightning based attacks, and no stupidity. With the ability to take GWs they can reach S7 or take an extra HW for 5 attacks. You don't need Throgg to make the DOs good, you do to make trolls playable. IT seems that Dragon Ogres are more versitile and can dish out and take more damage and take up the same slot as trolls (Throgg not withstanding).
Your analysis of Warrior units vs. Trolls was good, you may do the same with trolls vs. Dragon Ogres and see what you come up with.
Oh im not denying Dogres are good, infact they are a very powerful part of our book. The reason Im comparing trolls and warriors is that I see 10ish warriors all the time, and trolls are a comparable (both statwise and pointswise) potential core unit. If one were to compare Dogres it would be with knights for special slots IMO but thats a seperate discussion. Im just trying to figure out a regluar competitive list, that may use 2 units of trolls rather than the "10 man warr squad," or if stupidity is really such a damper that its not viable.
They are good but the cost is a major put off. Regen is not ever present against fire and if you use many trolls people will use lore of fire ( which also negates EoTG) and warriors have a really good save. Although it may stop the lore of metal which could potentially be more damaging than fire.
Daemonic cheese-how? Well, you would need to start with daemonic milk, i guess...
I would almost encourage the use of lore of fire, it keeps the knights/exalted/chariots or whatever else you run in the book safer, better to have them split effective fire than have one lore thats good against EVERYTHING
Hey man I run around with throgg and 4 trolls there reall really hard and if people want to throw everything at them then you get to roll on the table and if they do somehow manage to get rid of them the rest of your army is in there face.
I too use Throgg and one or two units of Trolls depending on the opponent. I like to go four Trolls per unit but keep in mind they can be a little tough to maneuver at that size. I love me some Troll vomit. I use them as a tar pit.
Let's say you add another Troll, for a total of 5 Trolls. Your unit of 5 Trolls is nowhere better. But, for that 45 point of extra, the Chaos warriors unit gets a musician, a standard and a Warbanner. That's an equivalent a +3 CR vs the Trolls (the musician in this case, really means +1CR).
Stupidity is HUGE. It simply means that, at some critical point in your manouvering (and that is soooo important in a WoC army), one of your unit might refuse to move/charge. It's not just a loss of the point value of the unit for that turn, it can really mean that many of your units will not be able to do what they wanted.
That said, I use Trolls. They are great. But they are not a replacement for Warriors.
"How do you stop a Chaos Knight from charging? No seriously, HELP!" André le Bouffon, jester of the Bretonnian court - last words.
Thanks alot guys, I really wanted to see the opionions of people who have played with them before, and you guys dident dissapoint Ive got a bit to think about.