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Let me start with I NEVER bring 4 characters. They're just too expensive.
My question is, do any of you use cheap characters. Like no magic items. Let me give you a quick example.
Exalted BSB with a shield. 2+ armor save, 4 WS7 str 5 attacks. Costs 140 points. WTF!?! My current BSB costs me 299 points. I could chop him into 2 guys.
Am I complaining that our characters are too expensive, because I am making them too expensive? Is it better to bring 4 cheap characters over 2-3 tricked out characters?
Here's an example:
Lord on Steed.
Chaos Rune Sword
Collar of Khorne
Favor of the Gods
Say you then take 2 scroll caddies.
You for 45 more points break him into just a lord on steed with a shield. And add in a Exalted BSB with a shield.
Which gives you more impact on your army?
A naked lord isn't something to laugh at. More often than not people will think he's some killing machine and avoid him, but you still are getting a skill machine. 5 WS8 str5 attacks with T5 and 3 wounds. 1+ armor save. For a few more points you can throw on tzeentch to make him atleast have a ward and also still make people think he's tooled up.
So we still got a deadly lord, some might say deadlier than a good chunk of other armies lords that are using magical items. But we added a BSB. Granted he has a 2+ armor save only, but he's no slouch in combat neither. He can easily take care of unit champions still.
Can anyone give me any more Pros and Cons for splitting up a super lord into 2 guys?
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Likewise, let's look at sorcerers.
I can tool up a sorcerer for 400 points or more. Could it be more beneficial to just bring a naked lvl4 tzeentch sorcerer and an unmarked lvl2 sorcerer?
When does adding magic items and gifts become a better option than just a 4th character?
We don't even have to dumb them down to nakedness. If we take our 3 super heroes and strip them of 120 points between them to pick up another lvl2 sorcerer, or an exalted with a shield.
Sorcerers are alittle harder to do this I think. Because you really can use the power familiar/book of secrets combo on your sorcerer lord and make him almost the equivilent of a lvl6 sorcerer(with minor draw backs: less total wounds, only 1 model, covers less of the battlefield).
I'm not 100% familiar with Chaos, but I can speak on behalf of Lizardmen, which have similar stats. I do tend to bring one or two characters who have very little to no magical gear. I always bring 4 characters. The other characters I do not max on magical gear as well, unless I bring a fighting Lord choice, in which case I do tend to bring close to a 100 pts in magical gear.
Several benefits to this.
a) less victory points to your enemy if for some reason they do kill your heroes
b) more points for you to spend on the rest of your army
c) your army will not be totally reliant on your characters rolls
It also depends on how you want to play your game. If have a certain strategy where your army benefits from having tooled out characters, then it is probably best to stick with those characters being high points. I don't think 4 characters with no magical gear is the best idea. But like I said, I'm not familiar with the Chaos so I'm not sure exactly what your stat line is and the options you have without magical gear.
I think there is a fine line for splitting or combing characters. Ldship 9 is nothing to scoff at, but if most of your army is MoS, you may not need that extra leadership and having 2 cheap exalteds (including your bsb) may run better for you. There is so many cool ways to kit out a character that I think that becomes a problem in itself, do you go naked or armed to the teeth? do you go defensive, impossible to kill since they hit hard anyway. Or does the rest of your army do all the wounds. Chaos has more than enough units that can decimate other units that squabblin' over characters is only one of our dilemas. Personally, I think you could run a chaos army without characters almost. What if you just took a scroll caddy, think how many killy units you could fit on the board with just 1 character? Think how hard he would be to get to. You could make your own horde of chaos. Who needs a leader when you're driven by the madness of chaos!?!
Not even meaning turning a lord into two exalteds. Its very easy to spend 150 points on addons for your lord. You can get a BSB for less than 150 points. You split your insane lord into a lord and BSB.
Im not experienced enough to give advise on which is better but I have an exalted built that is rather cheap and effective for an infantry unit.
-Fury of the Blood Gods
You can take off fury if you dont want the MR. But here you have a nice combat guy with a standard for 150-175 points. BsB is nice, and 4 Str 6 attacks with a 2+ armor save aint too shabby.
I think it depends on who your opponent is for the cheap vs. expensive characters possibly. Most armies cant handle our lords and heros even when they arent geared up. Against those guys it could be better to just use more. Against armies that have powerful characters, gearing up might be needed to have effective characters.
I can't bring myself to bring any naked characters (naked meaning no magic items) and my definition of cheap is when a hero cost under or near 175 pts or a Lord under 300 pts (maybe 350 for a lvl4 sorcerer).
Now on the subject of the discussion, let me compare your list to one of mine.
Having seen your DP list, I see you are bringing a lvl4 deamon prince (around 500pts) with a BSB with Banner of the Gods (300pts) and a lvl2 sorcerer (200pts) for a grand total of about 1000 pts.
If I compared this to one of my current list with 4 characters, I have 1 exalted hero and 3 lvl2. My exalted hero is a Khorne hero on a jugger with the axe of Khorne and he costs 225 pts. This is probably one of the best killing machines you can get for the point. He has a high probably to KB any character if he gets the charge. As for my 3 lvl2 it is the classic Nurgle buboes spam. For them the gift/magic items: (1) Fury of the Blood God, (2) Dispel Scroll/Collar of Khorne, (3) Dispel Scroll/Power Familiar. This gives me potentially MR1 or MR2 on all my useful unit, a character killer hero, 5DD+2Scroll, 9PD with the possibility of using 3 buboes/turn. My total point for this setup is around 800 pts.
To sum up my ideas:
Pros in this case:
- You can Spam special abilities or spell (MR and Buboes).
- You don't have all your eggs in one bag
- You still have powerful combat hero (with less defense)
- Killing a powerful opponent is still possible (you Buboe him, use the Glaive of Putrefaction or Axe of Khorne).
- You can't use 5 dice + re-roll to cast a godlike spell
- You won't be fielding a lord lvl character without sacrificing your fourth characters or having an awful lot of total points in your characters.
- You probably also can't use powerful items in the book (anything above 50pts)
Now I am sure I have omitted a lot of details and for sure someone can come up with something else but this is my 2 cents for the moment.
At the moment i am switching between using my WoC, Wood elves and OK. With wood elves i would never use a naked character as well they are far too weak but with OK and WoC the characters can handle themselves well enough with out being tooled up.
With my combat list i like to run 1 Lord and 3 Exhalted, the exhalteds are run naked to save points and the lord is useually fully tooled up. If your tight on points then an Exhalted Hero with Barded Steed and Halberd is fairly cheap.
My biggest problem is not putting marks on characters or units. It just doesnt seem right to leave a unit unmarked, but when i add the points up for marks in an army its usually a good 250 points.
I like the multiple cheaper heroes, as they can be in two places, instead of one, and are easily managed if you are to lose one.
For just shy of 150, you can get this torpedo:
Mark of Slaanesh
Steed of Slaanesh
Hits hard, moves lightning fast, and super maneuverable with fast cavalry rule, solid save, and the loving benefit of the MoS preventing any stupid psychology shenanigans from happening.
It's Adventure Time!
2010 'Ardboyz Champion
I know a lot of people who like the exalted general, but I like my leadership 9, that is if I'm bringing a combat general.
You bring a good point, Pinkus.
For me, it depends on the game's size. At less than 2000pts, i think having more heroes is better than having a tooled-up hero. Otherwise you'll get out-maneuvered. So I'd go with 2 smaller characters.
That doesn't go for sorcerers, though. Always, always take a Power familiar and BoS before taking another wizard. Those items are just too good to pass up. And the Mark spell lists are way better than the generic magic lists. So paying to equip a sorceror is, in my opinion, better than having naked sorcerers.
At larger scales, at least one character should be beefed up. Enough to tackle that more hardened unit/monstrous mounts (ex: dragons).
"How do you stop a Chaos Knight from charging? No seriously, HELP!" André le Bouffon, jester of the Bretonnian court - last words.