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Similar points cost, different advantages but I was wondering which people think are the best to take. My main opponents are Wood Elves and High Elves, so I was thinking that Forsaken might be good for hunting down wood elf bowmen cos of their extra speed. However the free roll on the Eye of the Gods table that the Chosen gets is great and I get the impression that their use as a hammer unit might outweigh any benefits of the Forsaken. Would like other peoples opinions please
Choosen all the way against those two armies. Forsaken have a meager 5+ AS and are frenzied, if your opponent is smart he will bait them around the board shooting them to kingdom come. Check out some of the other posts on forsaken if you are dead set on them. People play them for a few reasons 1) fluff 2) modeling opportunities or 3) to make their army not appear to be so cheesy. Now that being said if you must have them i have used them with a little success in two situations 1) in large blocks with a monster army (giants, Trolls, Ogres, DOs and the troll king) and 2) as small rear guard (for things like terradons and flyers trying to march block) and as small flanking units. However as a small unit goes i have found more success in 5-10 choosen with BoS (gives me a rear guard with a spell caster that survives shooting). Hope this helps if you have any questions feel free to PM me.
Against wood elves, forsaken are horrible, as there frenzy just let's them get run around the board by them damn elves. ¬.¬
And, as highlighted above, they are very weak to shooting, with only a 5+ save.
God, everyone hate forsaken. I don't get it.
Forsaken are best taken in minium squads, and not as a primary attack unit. The point of Forsaken is,
a) Their dirt cheap for what they do
b)They draw fire from more important units. Try talking the forsaken up before a game, explaining to your opponent that those five guys can get up to 20 str 4 attacks if they hit and see who gets shot first. I'd much rather have a bolt thrower turned on less than 1/20th of my points than say, my knights or warriors.
c) I don't think a lot of people have read frenzy since it's new incarnation. In some ways it's the most broken rule in the game right now. The only way you can re-direct frenzied units now is to give them a sure charge. In most cases, any sacrificial unit are going to equal, or exceed the forsaken's points cost. Which means if this is how your opponent plans to deal with forsaken, 9/10 times you're up on points. So why the hate people?!?
Forsaken all the way. Just not for the reasons you'd think you need them.
"..and when I wake up/ I imagine being crushed by one/ Imagine it's weight/ It's silence/ The absence of excuse for a havoced life/ And the privalage/ Of a 22 kilometre tombstone" In Flames - Jotun
Never bother with forsaken! you would be better off taking Chaos warriors of Khorne with extra hand weapon.
1) you get a gauranteed 4 attacks (the maximum a forsaken can manage, with the chance of getting 2).
2) you get a 4+ armour save (forsaken only get Heavy armour 5+).
3) option for banner and command (pricless especialy if you take the frenzy banner and then say the mark of nurgle making an amazing unit).
4) at 18 points forsaken, although with the extra movement should have been given skirmish making them worth it.
- as for the "sure charge"- put a unit 1 inch in the forsaken charge range using somthing like a 30pt unit of wolves/hounds = charge, flee, even on a double 1 you get away having fled 2 inches meaning forsaken have just failed charged. this is the same for any frenzied unit so not entirely sure the point Biggers157 is trying to make?
Also, should you get (through a mirical) all 20 attacks from those 5 guys, even hitting on 3s and wounding on 3s your looking at 8 wounds on average before armour/ward/regen saves. considering getting that many attacks isnt going to be the norm i would say somwhere between 3-5 wounds normaly.
Chosen I love. just a units of 10 i am prepared to givve full command and put my lord in, giving the unit champ favour of the gods to ensure a pick of gifts. given a mark, maybe a warshrine blessing and magic banner thats alot of points sunk into one unit but what a unit. Hitting other elite units on 3s alone is enough to make me want to take multiple small units of them. they certainly hold all the cards other forsaken.
Last edited by saltrock36; June 3rd, 2009 at 10:15.
Trying to figure out what you're getting at here. If you flee 3"s(which is the minimum for dogs to flee) that puts you 4"s away from the forsaken, which is in their 12" range so they catch you, move their full 12"s and your unit dies.- as for the "sure charge"- put a unit 1 inch in the forsaken charge range using somthing like a 30pt unit of wolves/hounds = charge, flee, even on a double 1 you get away having fled 2 inches meaning forsaken have just failed charged. this is the same for any frenzied unit so not entirely sure the point Biggers157 is trying to make?
A much better and safer tactic is just to use fast cav. Place them around 8"s away to make sure they are in charge range, then flee and rally. Rinse and repeat and your 60 point fast cav unit will lead the forsaken around all game.
At 18 points a model I just can't bring them. Sure they may attract some shooting, but that's because they die easily and are easy victory points.
I'd say chosen, though not being a experienced player, i'd say that the versatility of the chosen is a much bigger attraction, than the speed and chance-of-loads-of-attacks on the forsaken. Besides who wouldn't want some of those guys? Imagine them rolling +1 attack on the table, with MoK and perhaps great weapons or add. hand-weapons? Uhh the thought alone gives me the shivers in a good way!
"Scream your lungs out!"
Manorr Stormbreaker, the Silent - Lord of Khorne
I know its rare, but when khorne chosen get 5 attacks a piece they become the nastiest model for its point value.
Yeah I got 6 wide, but don't worry that's only 31 WS6 str 4 attacks coming at you. Imagine running into 25 night goblins, rolling out your butt and killing them all in 1 combat round. That'd just be hallarious.
It'd be even better if you killed only 24 of them. Beat that last guy by 20 some odd combat res and him rolling insane courage to hold!
If you want forsaken, think about this.
12 forsaken equals alittle over 215 points.
4 Chaos ogres with mark of khorne and extra hand weapons and chaos armor is 210 points.
You get 20 str 4 attacks all the time with the ogres. They both move 6"s and both units have 12 wounds. The ogres have a better armor save and you have to lose 3 wounds in combat before you start to lose attacks.
Forsaken have higher initiative, weapon skill and leadership.
While I'm not a big fan of chaos ogres, I will easily say they are much better than forsaken.
I was thinking maybe Forsaken had a use, like warmachine hunters. 5 Forsaken at 90 pts total.
But then I remembered that the cruise missile I field in every game does a better job for only 105 pts. And fills a core slot.
I just can't think of a job that Forsaken will do better then that cruise missile. I simply just can't.
"How do you stop a Chaos Knight from charging? No seriously, HELP!" André le Bouffon, jester of the Bretonnian court - last words.