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One of the guys I play regularly runs magic heavy lizardmen army, and usually hands me my ass- granted he's just a better player than me, so it makes sense- but I was wondering what tactics work very well against them. I was thinking of running a magic-heavy army, with Infernal Puppet, and tossing pandemoniums everywhere to mess with his priests. Any advice you have would be great.
if you go with a Magic vs Magic themed play, I'd avoid Nurgle theme as most of hteir magic is T related and Lizardmen generally have high T scores.
I would forget about the magic. I don't know much about warriors of chaos magic, but I know you'll be paying a lot of points to be able to match him in it.
In your position, i'd take 2 level 1's just for DD and take some scrolls on them. take a BSB and take a pumped up lord (perhaps that item that lets you turn an unsuccessful cast into a miscast?)
Basically, have 3 solid blocks of infantry. get take marauder horsemen with flails and some knights.
The block with your lord in should head straight towards the temple guard. The temple guard are strong, but with I2 will not likely survive with many attacks back.
Due to the stubborness of the temple guard, you'll have to protect your flanks there.
1 for 1 chaos warriors are better than lizardmen, if only just. the I difference will break them, just watch for 2 ranks of attacks back!
with your cav, try to get as many flank charges in as possible.
I was tossing around the idea of dragon ogres aswell. s7 with m7 is very good. They would kill a stegadon EOTG in likely 1 round of combat.
When fighting the stegadon, kill the priest first. not having the EOTG firing in CC is amazing.
That's all I can give you now off the top of my head. I'm a LM player
Thanks for the advice. So far I'm looking at
Collar of Khorne
Glaive of Putrefaction
2 dispel scrolls
Banner of Rage
Mounted (with knights)
Any thoughts on the characters' Items?
Gifts of Chaos?
Maybe give the Sorcerers MoT so they have some purpose after the scrolls are gone? Or are the general magic schools good (I don't have the core book with me atm)
Also maybe MoT to the Lord to up the ward to 5+
Take some Chosen, or only "Vanilla"(if there is such a thing) warriors?
Is it worth having some throwing weapons for the M Horsemen against Terradons (or whatever the dinosaur bird things are)?
MoT Level 4 disc is pretty brutal against lizardmen. You want to be able to cast other spells like flickering fire as much as possible in order to draw out dispell dice and cause his skinks to panic and flee. My casting set up is pretty brutal against lizards(infernal puppet, power familiar, and book of secrets) with a lvl2 nurgle, a lvl2 mot, and a lvl4 mot. I use buboes immediately on usually on his priest on the engine or ancient stegs. This pretty much always draws out dispell dice and I follow up with 2 dice fireball from the MoT and 1 dice flickering fire from the lvl2 and 1 pool dice to flickering from the lord. 4 casting + 1 pool on gateway on his temple gaurd with slann(assuming he is using this). This leaves me with 1 pool dice and I pop a power stone to pandaemonium. On the 2nd/3rd turn I will opt not to use flickering on my lord and 2 dice pandaemonium if neccesary which should buy you sufficient time to get your knights and anything else you need into combat.
If you are in range of the ability to negate any 6s on your lord I would not bother casting gateway and 4 dice pandaemonium and use 2 dice to flickering fire on each caster. Also, exalted heros are very good against the engines/ancient stegs as you can challenge the puny priest on top and kill him with no trouble.
Last edited by kyuzo; June 7th, 2009 at 23:19.
The reason I think this isn't so great is the fact that a slann + 2 EOTG is a level 4 and 2 level 3's for purpose of dice. so that's 8 dispel dice, + scrolls. with a level 4 and 2 2's you've only got 10 cast dice and I don't think that's enough.
The exalted hero against the priest is an excellent way to kill him, but it's only really reliable if you charge it. I'm not 100% on this, but I believe the whole stegadon model gets to fight in a challenge due to it being a monsterous mount, so that's 3 s6, 5 s3 attacks against the hero.
Also, you don't really need to waste said hero on an engine, the skink priest is weak in combat regardless, not need to limit yourself to a small amount of elitist attacks when a cav charge can just direct all of their attacks against the priest and kill him.
Sure, that unit of cav will more than likely die, but losing a caster and EOTG will hurt the LM player more.
I don't remember much of the chaos lores, I remember them being a little irritating but not too difficult to deal with.
If you're gonna use a level 4, perhaps lore of shadow? Pit of shades works wonders if you can get it off, I1 on saurus, I2 on temple guard.
We do really friendly games so normally know what the other is taking generally speaking, and he's already said hes not even trying out the EotG on this game (this will be our first game with the most recent army books for both me and him) so he'll have a lvl 4 slan, and at max 2 lvl 2 skinks, though it might only be 1.
Oh and btw, in my opinion Tzeentch spells are freaky-kick-ass stuff, and Nurgle has it's moments too, I bet a well built magic heavy could take them, but I've already decided to not go for magicky, but instead for a "Dead priests throw no comets" style
And as for challenging a stegadon, the Steg gets to fight as well, but not the skinks, I think. At least thats how Chariot challenges work, Stegs might have special rules that I can't check (don't have the book)
I'm pretty set on the non-magic list for the battle anyways, if it flops I will probably try it the other way, so any advice on the best way to out fight the Lizards would be best
8 Dispell dice isn't going to stop you, but he may or may not bring a scroll or 2 which would be tricky. Honestly, if you really want to you can just bring 2 nurgle sorcs with the mot lord and hardcast buboes with 3 dice on the level 3s which he is going to be forced to use up 3-4 dice of his own on the single spell pending on the rolls. The scrolls shouldnt be that big of a deal and you will burn them up in the first and/or second turn. You should also have 1-2 scrolls yourself which should provide yourself with sufficient protection against the hard spells until you are able to get off pandaemonium.
This is what i do against my friend who plays Lizardmen (very magic heavy).
5 caster lineup:
1 level 4 Sorcerer Lord - MoT - 5x Power Stone, on a Disc of Tzeentch (spam flickering Fires of Tzeentch on his biggest units (using all 5 power dice)). This should force him to use up all of his dispell dice (especially if you use 2 dice per cast).
1 level 2 Sorc - MoT - Disc of Tzeentch - The Black Tongue (wait for either his slann or EotG's Skink priest to fail a spell and use it on them
1 level 2 Sorc - MoN - Chaos Steed - 2x Power Stone (go hunting for the EotG Skink Priest with him right away (but save him to cast last)
1 level 2 Sorc - MoN - Chaos Steed - Infernal Puppet
Chosen - Get a Chosen Champion and equip him with - Book of Secrets - Pick the Lore of Fire and get Fireball. (I like units of 10 chosen, but thats just me) (marks are up to you)
(something else you may want to consider is taking an unmarked level 4 lord using the Lore of Shadow - This is becaues Pit of Shades is your friend against Lizardmens low Initiative. This is a personal favorite of mine as you just keep targetting the EotG's and wait for him to fall thru the ground
Take 3 groups of warriors with a Spawn or 2, and a Chariot or 2.
Happy lizard hunting