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  1. #1
    Topic Creator Deluxe Mr_Wayne's Avatar
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    225 (x7)

    Time to get serious.

    Let's add all the successfull WoC tournament winner lists here. Compare their tactics and strategy and builds. That way we can highlight good and bad combinations, not jst theoretical ideas but things that really work.

    Wasnt there a briar army that kicked the tushie of everything?
    And this latest Indy GTwinner, how was it built?
    Only documented wins, not you own lists that you allegedly won everything with.

    Last edited by Mr_Wayne; June 10th, 2009 at 21:31.
    "The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"

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  3. #2
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    39 (x1)

    Aren't you afraid a thead like this will just lead to cookie-cutter builds and strategies?

  4. #3
    Topic Creator Deluxe Mr_Wayne's Avatar
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    225 (x7)

    A tournament list is made to win. It isnt made to make friends, not when theres prize money at stake.
    Fluffy lists are played for fun, as are friendly lists. Competitive lists are made to win. Period.
    Some bring their dual dragons, some bring their thirsters and we bring our... ?
    You don't have to be mean or rude when you play competitively, just because you bring your A game.

    By the way, I'm not american or english. What exactly does cookie cutter mean?
    "The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"

  5. #4
    Senior Member NekhraRises's Avatar
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    64 (x1)

    Cookie Cutter refers to using a template for cutting dough into a preset shape, like cookies all in the shape of gingerbread men, they would use a cookie cutter to make the body shape.

    In reference to a list, an example would be:

    Cookie Cutter Chaos Space Marines List of nasty

    Daemon Prince with Lash and wings
    Daemon Prince with Lash and wings

    Plague Marines
    Plague Marines

    Obliterators x 3
    Obliterators x 3
    Obliterators x 3

    For example...

  6. #5
    Topic Creator Deluxe Mr_Wayne's Avatar
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    225 (x7)

    Aaaahhh... It's all too clear to me. I was thinking some kind of special cookie cutter knife that was good at just cutting cakes and stuff. And that just seemed weird. This makes so much sense.

    But as we say in sweden:
    Sour said the fox about the rönberries.
    "The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"

  7. #6
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    I suppose it's a personal choice on your attitude to your opponents at tournaments, and surely it also depends on the kind of gaming environment that is supported by the tournament organizers, but there are several people I look forward to seeing every three or four months or so at the tourneys around here and that certainly wouldn't be the case if we were all just out for blood.

    I wasn't trying to be too harsh or critical when I asked about the cookie-cutter (i.e., commonplace and expected) build issue, I also had a practical question in mind; when certain builds for certain armies become popular, they become what people expect to face. Armies get tailored to beat it, and in an ultra-competitive environment, a well-balanced, reasonable list will win out.

    I guess my main concerns are that A), I personally think that a player should field a list that he feels strongly about, that he has designed himself and playtested and tweaked to find the right complement to his playstyle, and that all players of the game should strive to avoid the "army of the month" feel that online forums (and, some have argued, GW itself) fosters.

  8. #7
    Champion of Chaos Pinkus's Avatar
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    279 (x7)

    Seattle GT:
    Briar Queen-
    Sorcerer Lord- Lvl4- MoT, Disc, Infernal Puppet, Dispel Scroll, Golden Eye of Tzeentch, Blood Curdling Roar

    Hag-
    Sorcerer- Lvl2- Book of Secrets, Dispel Scroll, Conjoined Homunculus

    Gallant-
    Exalted Hero- BSB- Banner of the Gods, Chaos Steed, Flail, Shield

    Briars-

    25 Marauders FC- MoS- Light Armor, Shield

    25 Marauders FC- MoS- Light Armor, Shield

    5 Hounds- XXpts

    5 Hounds- XXpts

    Spawn- XXpts

    Spawn- XX5pts

    Fallen Princes-

    12 Warriors Champ & SB- MoN- Great Weapons, Shields- Banner of Rage- 305pts

    5 Knights FC- MoN- Banner of Wrath- 325pts

    Briar Box-

    Warshrine- MoS
    Conflict GT 2009
    Daemon Prince- Level 4, Mark of Tzeentch, Tendrils of Tzeentch, Bloodcurdling Roar-555

    Chaos Sorcerer- Level 1, Mark of Nurgle, Dispel Scroll, Power Familiar- 155

    Exalted Hero- Battle Standard Bearer, Mark of Tzeentch, Disc, Eye of Tzeentch, Books of Secrets, Flail, Shield-224

    10 Chaos Warriors- Mark of Slannesh, Halberds, Shields- 180

    10 Chaos Warriors- Mark of Slannesh, Halberds, Shields- 180

    10 Chaos Warriors- Mark of Slannesh, Halberds, Shields- 180

    5 Chaos Knights- 200

    Chariot of Slannesh- 130

    Chariot of Slannesh- 130

    Hellcannon- 205

    Spawn- 55

    Spawn- 55
    Comments on army by the winner
    The army- Overall it played well. I liked the warriors alot, and wished i had 11 so i could run 6 wide with a rank. The book was cool but lvl 2 would have probably been more useful. MR2 3+ vs magic would have been nice on DP, but i can keep him pretty safe. Knights were lacking, getting to 6 with banner/warbanner would help. Hellcannon never did anything amazing, but being unbreakable was nice.
    -Sergrum
    ----------
    I see lvl4 tzeentch sorcerers, a secondary sorcerer and spawns. Recess Rumble Winner had lvl4 tzeentch sorc lord on disc as well. I think the first list did decent in combat, but got massive bonus points for painting and such.
    ----------
    And yes they were a pain in the ass to find, I'll accept your thanks in the form of rep! :p
    Last edited by Pinkus; June 11th, 2009 at 06:40.
    US Master's Midwest Advisor.
    Come join me at my GT this September www.brewfestgt.com

  9. #8
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    Are these lists at 2000 or 2250? As in England most of the Tournaments ive been to are still using 2000 which of course effectivly cuts out the chance to use a DP or magic heavy list.

  10. #9
    PokeSavant Esco Thomson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr_Wayne View Post
    But as we say in sweden:
    Sour said the fox about the rönberries.
    I'm not sure what it is, or why exactly, but a ronberry sounds absolutely delicious about now!
    It's Adventure Time!
    2010 'Ardboyz Champion

  11. #10
    Favored of Tzeentch Viktor's Avatar
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    129 (x8)

    Quote Originally Posted by Esco Thomson View Post
    I'm not sure what it is, or why exactly, but a ronberry sounds absolutely delicious about now!
    I'm not even sure they're edible. Or how the heck a fox would get to them, as they grow on tall trees.

    On topic: The perfect list won't win you a tournament. You need a balanced list ready to take all comers, otherwise you have to rely on luck, hoping that whatever comes up your list will take down. No, for consistent wins you need a well rounded list, and then just work work work on your generalship.

    Basically, when building your tournament list, always plan for the possibility that THAT army might come up. And prepare accordingly.
    Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
    Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks

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