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Hi and thanks for reading!
This will be a messy post so bear with me...
Me and two friends of mine have started up with warhammer again and i have a few questions.
First of all my friends collects Vampire Counts and Tomb kings and I don't remember much of rules and tactics.
I already have a few models that I can use: 16 marauder w/shields full command, 12 warriors w/shields and full command (almost finished), Crom (I know that he's outdated, but my friends let me use him if I want to, or else he is a champion), 1 Sorcerer with familiar (can use him as tzeencht) and 1 champion of Khorne with additional handweapon.
We used to play from 2000-4000 point annihilation battles (it takes a good amount of time, yes) and I struggle to figure out my army composition, haven't found many topics on our rare units, so please share experienses with them (is shaggoth as good as the model looks? how bout' them giants [with marks?] and hellcannons?)
I understand that knights with mark of nurgle+ banner of rage is popular combo, I've never used fast cavalry and so on. Is hounds any good against undead? What in general is? Mark of Slaanes or Khorne? And what is this at least 5 models wide units? I'm going to buy the 7th edition rulebook in 2 weeks or so as well as some new models. I appologize if many of the questions is answered there.
Again, I'm sorry for all the questions, My 13 year old norwegian brain didn't get everything back then so I'm as good as new. Anyway all answers and tips are very much appreciated!
Welcome (back) to WoC!
First of all, you're going to have a challenge right out of the gate with your friend’s armies, as both are undead and Immune to Psychology Fear causers.
Of the units you have, Warriors are good, marauders are weaker, but you probably knew that.
Against VC and TK mark of Slaanesh will be your best friend, as it will negate their fear causing power.
Yes, knights with mark of nurgle and banner of rage are popular, with good reason. They should have a unit of dogs to work in tandem with them, blocking their line of sight so that they won't go off charging anything they see.
All cavalry/Fast Cavalry lists are popular on this forum, as well as strong magic lists.
Unfortunately both of the armies you're likely to play against will also be strong magic. TK are very tricky, and vampires are just awesome.
I like to use sorcerers over heroes, and I don't really use rare choices.
People will tell you the hellcannon is great (which it is) but it’s not so good against VC and tK, as they will never panic. It is a close combat monster though and won't let you down.
Shaggoths need more armour for something their size.
Giants a great fun, especially with Mark of Slaanesh, Always strikes first Jump up and down? okay!
Warshrines are great support units, and can take a charge. They are also a great modelling project as there is literally limitless options (i.e. no standard model).
Spawn are also very good as flank guards due to their unbreakability, Mark of Slaanesh for ASF is a good play too.
Specials are where WoC shine.
Knights - nothing bad to say about them. They are awesome.
Dragon ogres - a good alternative to knights, they fill a similar role but won't last as long in a drawn out combat.
Trolls - wicked awesome, but stupid. Their mutant regeneration is awesome.
Chosen - like warriors on steroids, and you pay for it. They are wicked when you give them a good mark (tz or Sla) and support them with a warshrine or two. Give the champion favour of the gods and you're laughin.
Forsaken - they are forsaken for a reason, don't waste your time on these guys
Ogres - good, but Dragon ogres are better.
That’s yer specials, normally a 2K army has 3-4 of them filled. The rest is heroes and core, but sometimes depending on the situation, people will take a rare or two.
Hope this helps! Read the forum, you'll learn a lot. Look for Pinkus' posts, they are usually very creative.
That aswered about everything, thanks!
So for now I'll aim for 2000
Could you guide me in the right direction when it comes to unit sizes and use/"un"-use of command groups?
2 spawns and a giant would add variety and entertainment to both painting and playing, and i really prefer plastic.
What do you think of a 10 strong chosen unit, 1 unit of 5 knights (with the nurgle banner of rage combo) and trolls/dragon ogres (i had a chariot once, looks old and falls apart, dragon ogres and ogres don't look to good i think. Forsaken, well not that interested)
this is what my army list in progress looks like at the moment
spawns and giant all slaanesh 415p
knights full command, nurgle & rage 315p
10 chosen with full command, great weapons 250p
12 warriors with shield, full command 222p
16 marauders with shield and light armour, full command 116p
2x5 warhounds 60p
What do you think of the equipment and so on? I don't want to remodel the core units and i guess they hold up against the much weaker undead units. As for characters I used to play Khorne and don't rule out the possibility of going magic strong this time. Slaanesh magic isn't very good againts Vampires and Tomb kings?
sounds like you got a good solid core started I would just like to point out you may want to rethink adding in champions as they are quite expensive for what they add, and the WoC army rule is all models that can challenge must challenge so it could end up hurting you.
Giants are very good against vc since they lack any shooting and are a lot of fun to play. Chosen are generally run 6 wide and either 2-3 deep and warriors 6x2 as well. These 2 units are going to rely on winning combat resolution through killing your opponent therefore you want to maximize the amount of attacks they can get. Marauders on the other hand are run in blocks of 5 most of the time and usually 3-4 deep to get the most out of combat resolution rank bonus. Khorne is pretty amazing against undead, slaanesh is solid all around.
I myself have recently returned to warhammer after 6 years, but spent the past 6 months playing as woodelves before swiching back to chaos. I remeber the days of old, when chaos was a little more mutated.
I find Warriors with Full command, Banner of rage, and running in rows of 6-7 unit size 16-24 can be really easy to use. Gear them up with Aditional Hand weapons (4 attacks each, 4+ save) and shields (2+save), pick which one they use depending on who you are hitting.
Lord choices are, in my opinion, overrated at 2K. Going Magic Heavy against vampires and TK may be nessiary depending on how heavy on magic they go.
I have been running 1 mage and 1 bsb and focusing points on troops, and it has done fairly well so far.
Knights are pretty much the best thing ever. Dragon Ogres are mean too.
I've started using the helcannon alot and love it, but i don't see as much undead as i used to.
Slaneesh is prob your best bet against undead. it A) counters their fear and is cheaper, meaning more points. B is important since he will always be bringing his guys back, you need your static res to last as long as possible. All those marks can add up pretty quick.
Keep your unit champions, you will need them to protect characters from challanges they shouldn't be accepting. I move my characters between units constently so I never know where they will end up. I move them alot because I am still new and don't always put them where they should go when i deploy the army.
Slaneesh Magic is useless vs undead. Some may argue it's useless period. Nurgle and tzeech are the prefered lores. Nurgle is prob best for undead as the lvl 1 spell can snipe the general all game long. take 3-4 level 2 casters and just spam the characters till they are dust.
Thank you all. Looks like I'll have a plan forward, it may take a while, but I'm gonna try to post my first battle reports on these forums when I'm ready
Just as your list starts coming together, you really need to look at your core as your maurauder block is too small. They dont kill anything, and rely more on static combat res to stay put. I have found 2 units of 24 with shield, LA and F/C with MoS is a solid choice, especially vs fear causers. They are also a great place to put your sorcerors, as they stay put, and are never screened.
Warriors are a solid choice, but I am finding that 6 naked MoK knights with a dog screen performs awesome for their points. With WOC and MoK and MoS, it is quite easy to get an entire army that has great ability to negate the advantages opponents rely on for fear, terror and panic.
Last edited by mercenary; July 23rd, 2009 at 01:34.
Putting Slaanesh on a Chaos Spawn or giant gives them the Always Strike First rule? I didn't find that rule anywhere in the book.
It written in the army list -> Rare choices -> Chaos Spawn/Giant -> marks of chaos
Definately go with knights. 6 is a good size for maximum attacks, and not crippling you if you get hit by a Wind of Undeath or roll a 1 when TK shoots at you.
I find chosen worth all the points. Especially when you're up against TK and VC who aren't that shooty.
Decide either to go anti-magic or magic heavy yourself!
You'll be facing a lot of spells to dispell so either get you some dispel dice by going magic heavy, or go with two lvl 1 sorcerers carrying 2 dispell scrolls each. That should save you the first 2 rounds of magic, and by that time you should be having the upper hand of the battle, with the increased number of melee you get by shaving points of magic
As stated before, go with big units of marauders or go with some cruise missiles:
5x Marauder horsemen
Flails and Light Armor
Mark of Khorne
This should be somewhere around 100 pts, and if you charge them into a zombie unit, you should kill
10 on the first round, and 9 on the second round. With the CR in your favor, they should be dead by combat phase two, with no losses on your side.
If you want to take small units of marauders, I suggest just 10-12 with greatweapon and khorne. Besides that, you really need to aim for the 23-25 model mark and mark them slaanesh.
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