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After testing out my Tzeentch sorcerer lord and managing to loose him due to not rallying (underestimated a Waagh roll by some boars).
In the last few battles Nurgle magic have proven far superior in winning my battles, than lore of tzeentch. Gateway is ofcourse nice, but even with a spell familiar there is a chance that you won't get it.
Against orcs and goblins 1 rot glorious rot from a lvl 2 managed to take out 6 fantatics, 4 squig hoppers and a silly amount of other goblins, a very impressive spell that also works in combat. This is another annoyance about Tzeentch magic, once you hit combat with alot of units, he can't really cast anything that impressive.
Against Chaos Curse of the Leper turned the enemy knights into glorified empire knights, that got easily crushed by my own knights, effectively winning the battle.
I see no really weak spells in the Nurgle Lore, so am really tempted to run a lvl 4 Nurgle Sorcerer after 4 battles this weekend. (running 1-2 lvl 2 Nurgle Sorcs, and 1 lvl 4 Tzeentch).
I think that 1 lvl 2 Tzeentch Sorcerer (for flickering fire), 1 lvl 2 nurgle and a lvl 4 nurgle will prove superior to the above.
Loosing gateway does suck ass, but it is by no means impossible to win without it, and there seems to be better synergy with Lore of Nurgle.
Loosing the Disc is the only really big downside I can see, but so far the high movement of the disc has caused me to loose the lord twice due to fleeing off the board.
Loosing the disc would bother me the most here.
It sounds like a very good idea, replacing using 6 lvls of Nurgle and 2 of Tzeentch!
You could give it a try with a Nurgle DP? Flying + Glorious Rot would prove more crazy than Gateway I think!
Using the Mantle of Chaos instead of Tendrils on him (you don't need a 5 dice cast with Nurgle) would mean you could place him at places where he would get shot to death with Tendrils!
I think that one of the big advantages of Tzeentch is the ability to fly; with a Daemon Prince you don't have to worry about that so much.
I kind of feel that it's often worth considering how many seperate skills you can squeeze into a Character or unit; for example, in the Nurgle v. Tzeentch caster discussion, if you take a Daemon Prince and mark him Tzeentch, you waste his free flying ability, as he gets the potential to fly from two different sources (the other, of course, being the Disc).
None of the benefits of Nurgle are replicated simply by being a Daemon Prince and so it kind of seems to me that the Nurgle Daemon Prince is the best use of points.
So far as one lore v. another is concerned, I think it's important to realise that any of the lores - as with any other choices or options in the game - is situational and heavily dependant on luck. You can't guarantee anything in this game!
Nurgle is a stronger lore. Its a cheaper lore and its a more dependable lore. Sure magic takes luck, but Tzeentch magic requires more luck because its spells are extrememly variable, and their are only three spells worth anything in that lore.
Sure you cant fly as a nurgle lord (unless your a DP) but how good is being able to fly if your magic isnt that great. The whole nurgle lore is usefull. I honestly dont see a comparison. Gateway is cool and people hold onto it thinking its good but its not reliable and not even that good. The Tzeentch lore doesnt have much respect where I play. WoC magic in general doesnt, but Nurgle/Slannesh are both solid
They are both fairly good lores and I would by no means call any of them better than the other. With tzeentch flickering fire is an amazing spell, it is a monster killer and can definitely put a number on blocks or even heavy calv. The number 2 and 5 spells suck completely I wont even bother mentioning them.
Pandaemonium is also one of the most amazing spells we have especially since it synergizes with infernal puppet and infernal gateway so well. Not only is this magic defense to the extreme, but the ability to get a ton of free gateways off and even better killing that pesty wizard(pretty much free win against VC if you do). Treason also has the ability to devastate any opponent that is rocking halberds or gws but other than that it is so so.
Nurgle is also a very situational lore just like tzeentch. Buboes, what else can be said about it great at killing characters. Outside of this nurgle doesnt really have much to kill units outside of rot glorious rot(were you really trying to get this spell off with a level 2? seems ridiculous to even attempt). The regen is nice but takes a lot of power dice to cast and can be avoided. Plague squall has potential but requires a lot of luck and you can misfire. Cloying is about as situational as treason and curse of the leper is also just very mediocre.
I mean if you really want to be successful as you can be in tournies I think the lvl4 tzeentch is a must with supporting lvl2 nurgles but I don't think you can go wrong with the other way around plus it may be a little more fun seeing what rot can do if you roll good.
I really like Nurgle. I used my DP tzeentch before for the gateway spamming, but last games I've been running a level 4 + extra spell nurgle. He took out 3 units of fast cavalry at a time, casting Rot, glorious rot, wounded a dragon for 2, and did a nice amount of casualtys to alot of dryads, and killed 2 spellsingers who were hidden in a wood.
Tzeentch has some nice spells, flickering fire can wreck heavaly armoured units, and ofcourse Gateway is fantastic for finishing stegadons, giants, dragons and other big stuff in a flash.
Nurgle has a nice 1th spell, regeneration, and a nice spell against dwarfs/saurus ( take an initiative test and armour safe whooo! ) and ofcourse number 6, who is fantastic!
There both great lores, but for now I'm going to stick with my lvl 4 Nurgle mage
About the trying to get gateway off as a lvl 2. I only had 1 sorcerer left and no good targets for buboes, so might as well use my dice on Rot.... I rolled Irresistable Force so that was pretty amazing .
It was desperate but it changed the fight from a loss to a draw, seeing as I got rid of 6 fanatics that would otherwise have caused alot of hurt ( with a little bad / good luck depending on whose side you are on).
It just got me thinking and I will definately test out Nurgle for a few battles, It just appear to have alot more synergy with the army.
I am personally not too impressed with Pandaemonium, It is very nice, and it will drain some power dice, but only very rarely will the miscasts happen, in that regard it is little better than having Curse of the Leper active or another dangerous RiP spell.
Treason never seem to cause enough damage to warrant the relatively high cost.
Which leaves Flickering Fire and Gateway, which are both very nice, but risky and expensive to cast, normally resulting in less magic overall getting off.
Flickering Fire is equally good on a lvl 2, and I just feel that Tzeentch lvl 4s are too expensive at near 400 when there is a small chance you will not get gateway.
I am still not too keen on Slaaneshi magic, as I play alot of high leadership/ ItP armies.
Treason is a pretty nice spell imo, but Gateway and Flickering Fire are way better. Just as buboes and Rot, G Rot, are the best in Nurgle's lore, followed by regeneration. Gateway feels more of a gamble with getting it off, rolling its hits and rolling to wound. I find it hard to explain... But it just doesn't feel right imo
I only use tzeentch on my level 2, for flickering fire and perhaps, when the change occurs, getting gateway off when the enemy miscasts, though I'dd might just pick Rot than
If you want a lore that is destructive but requires a lot of luck then a level 4 Tzeentch is your guy. But to say a level 4 Tzeentch is a must for a tourny list is just silly.
I think you are really underestimating pandaemonium azhrar, it is definitely a game changer and has done amazing things for me. The miscasts are frequent, if I have this spell up and my opponent is throwing more than 1 dice at a spell, it will happen a lot.
I stick with tzeentch definitely being the best with nurgle support if you want to jump in a tourny, but I really dont want to argue that with you sde as you are extremely biased for a personal reason.I am lost, they cost exactly the same and both have a chance at not getting the best spell in the lores the #6.and I just feel that Tzeentch lvl 4s are too expensive at near 400 when there is a small chance you will not get gateway.