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  1. #1
    Member Shaggoth's Avatar
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    Fantasy/WoC Noob

    Hey everyone, just started delving into Fantasy though I've been playing 40k for quite some time. So, without playing any games I've taken all the models of my army and beefed them up to be withing 1300 points. Odd number I know but when my friends also only started out or are fantasy veterans with tiny armies (he prefers 40k) you gotta make due with what you have. So I drafted a small list and would like your thoughts on it. Looking back at it I find my banner of rage placement questionable but this is quite open to be changed (other than the Khornate warriors who are already painted).

    Exalted Hero 194pts
    -Add. Hand Weapon
    -MoK
    -Favour of the Gods
    -Axe of Khorne
    -Fury of the Blood God

    12 Warriors 287pts
    -MoK
    -Add. Hand Weapons
    -Full Command
    -Banner of Rage

    12 Warriors 287pts
    -MoT
    -Shields
    -Full Command
    -Banner of Wrath

    20 Marauders 150pts
    -MoN
    -Shields
    -Full Command

    5 Warhounds

    5 Warhounds

    5 Chaos Knights 310pts
    -MoT
    -Full Command
    -Blasted Standard

    Total: 1288pts

    Essetially a battallion, extra box of warriors, and the champion with two axes. All the units are kinda expensive but thats fine until I get more models. So yea this is what I have going, the hero will probably be stuck with the Marauders most of the game, as the warriors seem able to handle themselves. Warhounds will screen him so he doesn't frenzy his unit into a useless area of the board. I know MoK knights or Banner of Rage knights are popular but at their investment I really like the awesome ward save and having my cavalry run about bashing the nearest git into the ground doesn't appeal to me. In games I'd prefer my knights to get after the ranged units my opponents like (dwaves and wood elfs and empire oh my!). Also, I know MoS is very popular for warriors to make them hard to shift but with the "Will of Chaos" and decent ld I dunno if I need this mark for the majority of my forces.

    Expanding on this army I plan on getting:

    Dragon Lord - Too awesome to pass up

    Hellcannon - Only real "shooty" chaos, not bad at breaking infantry or gobbling up flank harassers either.

    Shaggoth or Kholek Suneater - Both of these units are hard as nails and deadly to boot, plus I love their fluff.

    Sorcerer Prince - Expensive but a lvl 4 wizard who flies and causes terror would be invaluable, torn between nurgle and tzeentch since both seem really useful compared to slaanesh.

    2-3 Sorcerors - Various marks, most likely one of each lore or two of whichever one the prince doesn't use and one slaanesh.

    1-2 Warriors - Obvious, large blocks of rock hard infantry is necessary.

    1 Knights - Either to form another unit or a second rank to my other knights.

    1 Marauders - Flail armed meatshields

    2 Marauder Horsemen - Either one big unit or two harasser units, dunno which

    2 Warhounds - Bolster ad swell te ranks of my screen units so they don't die, or make a large unit for flank harassment

    1 Giant - Good for holding a flank, and the random and haphazard nature of giants appeals to me.


    Well thats about it, never played fantasy but I have a limited idea of the rules on some things, but not on any others. Keep in mind I would like some advice as what to take/give my units, where to go from here, and general advice for battle scenarios.

    Last edited by Shaggoth; August 9th, 2009 at 02:51.

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  3. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Hey everyone, just started delving into Fantasy
    Welcome!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Exalted Hero 194pts
    -Add. Hand Weapon
    -MoK
    -Favour of the Gods
    -Axe of Khorne
    -Fury of the Blood God
    You can't take Fury of the Blood God is you're also taking magic items, sadly. Other than that, he's a nasty selection. You should at least give him a Shield, though - and ideally mount him. And I'd definitely think about another Mark for him - Tzeentch, perhaps; or Nurgle.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    12 Warriors 287pts
    -MoK
    -Add. Hand Weapons
    -Full Command
    -Banner of Rage
    Why give Banner of Rage to Khornate Warriors? That's just putting Frenzy on a Frenzied unit. Move the banner or change their Mark. I'd question using the Champions, too - they're not really worth the points for the extra attack.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    12 Warriors 287pts
    -MoT
    -Shields
    -Full Command
    -Banner of Wrath
    Again, I question the Champions. I also wonder whether you might be better with Mark of Slaanesh - it makes your Warriors stick around a lot longer. You have no magic protection, so you're going to be taking a beating from enemy casters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    20 Marauders 150pts
    -MoN
    -Shields
    -Full Command
    I'd keep the Champion here to allow flexibility over challenging with your Hero, should you decide - for whatever reason - that you don't want to. I would, however, go Slaanesh on these guys too. You don't want this unit running away - and they'll be dying plenty fast.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    5 Warhounds XXpts

    5 Warhounds XXpts
    You can't use points values on naked units, I'm afraid - you'll need to remove them. Other than that, nothing to say. Warhounds are good. Use them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    5 Chaos Knights 310pts
    -MoT
    -Full Command
    -Blasted Standard
    Ah, now there you go. Put Banner of Rage on these guys. Put Banner of Wrath on your Khornate Warriors and put Blasted Standard on your Tzeentch/Slaanesh Warriors. Same points costs, but now your units actually make sense.

    Again on these guys, lose the Champion. Remember you're forced to challenge with any Character, and you mightn't want to be doing that. For the points cost it's not worth it. Of course, if you're desperately trying to spend points, you may as well stick with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    All the units are kinda expensive but thats fine until I get more models.
    Fine - keep your Champions for now, then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    the hero will probably be stuck with the Marauders
    Good.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Warhounds will screen him so he doesn't frenzy his unit into a useless area of the board.
    You're not quite right in your understanding of the mechanics here: he can't 'frenzy his unit' - if anything gets baited, it'll be him, on his tod, running around and foaming at the mouth while the Marauders stay where they were told to and watch him get shot to pieces. As I said, I'd change his Mark.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    I know MoK knights or Banner of Rage knights are popular but at their investment I really like the awesome ward save
    They come with a standard 1+ armour save - you're going to be reasonably safe. Mark of Tzeentch and Banner of Rage gives you a little bit of added protection along with the benefit of a disgusting amount of damage.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    having my cavalry run about bashing the nearest git into the ground doesn't appeal to me.
    Then you shouldn't be playing cavalry. That's what these guys do - and Chaos Knights better than most.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    In games I'd prefer my knights to get after the ranged units my opponents like (dwaves and wood elfs and empire oh my!).
    Then you should probably be using Marauder Horsemen. That's much more their area of expertise.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Also, I know MoS is very popular for warriors to make them hard to shift but with the "Will of Chaos" and decent ld I dunno if I need this mark for the majority of my forces.
    If you take three wounds on your Warriors unit, you're taking a Panic test. You can fail these; trust me. If you get beaten in combat by a Fear-causing enemy, you're running. Etc. Slaanesh protects you against having your men turning and running away; essentially it ensures that they only leave the board by dying. That's a worthwhile investment in my eyes.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Dragon Lord - Too awesome to pass up
    I haven't used one yet but Pinkus swears by his Dragon-mounted Sorcerer Lord.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Hellcannon - Only real "shooty" chaos, not bad at breaking infantry or gobbling up flank harassers either.
    Also haven't tried one of these yet. I'm not sold on their worth, to be honest. Neither are a lot of other people.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Shaggoth or Kholek Suneater - Both of these units are hard as nails and deadly to boot, plus I love their fluff.
    One of my absolute favourite units. These things are monsters. Be aware that they look rather like pincushions from your opponent's side of the table, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Sorcerer Prince - Expensive but a lvl 4 wizard who flies and causes terror would be invaluable, torn between nurgle and tzeentch since both seem really useful compared to slaanesh.
    Again, Pinkus seems to be heavily in favour or Slaanesh. I tend to avoid magic, so couldn't really comment. His arguments seem solid and persuasive, though.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    2-3 Sorcerors - Various marks, most likely one of each lore or two of whichever one the prince doesn't use and one slaanesh.
    Nopenopenope. If you want to use Slaanesh, you need to do it with your main caster. Slaanesh sucks balls at level 1 or level 2.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    1-2 Warriors - Obvious, large blocks of rock hard infantry is necessary.
    Not necessarily. You can run some devastating cavalry armies with Warriors of Chaos. Also, "large blocks" flies in the face of conventional wisdom; Warriors shouldn't be much bigger than 12 models to a unit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    1 Knights - Either to form another unit or a second rank to my other knights.
    Don't add a second rank. Why do that when you can have a whole other unit? You're giving one unit an extra +1 combat res, when you could have a second unit with 15 attacks to put in someone's face.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    1 Marauders - Flail armed meatshields
    Warhounds are our best meatshields, if you ask me. Marauders, I personally feel, can do a job, if they're in a large block, Light Armour and Shields and Mark of Slaanesh.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    2 Marauder Horsemen - Either one big unit or two harasser units, dunno which
    These guys will win you games. They're that good. Use them. Lots of them.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    2 Warhounds - Bolster ad swell te ranks of my screen units so they don't die, or make a large unit for flank harassment
    As with Marauder Horsemen. These two units are the unsung heroes of the Warriors of Chaos army. They are so valuable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    1 Giant - Good for holding a flank, and the random and haphazard nature of giants appeals to me.
    I haven't used one - I don't like the randomness.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Well thats about it, never played fantasy but I have a limited idea of the rules on some things, but not on any others. Keep in mind I would like some advice as what to take/give my units, where to go from here, and general advice for battle scenarios.
    Hope that's helpful. Welcome to Warriors of Chaos - they're a good fun army to play with. Have fun and good luck!
    Last edited by el_don; August 9th, 2009 at 02:26.

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    Thanks for the response and some clear up about frenzy. I think I will take MoK off my hero, pity he loses fury, I must have not read his rules closely enough! I think moving MoN onto him and MoS onto my marauders will make them difficult to kill at range, as MoN extends to his unit for shooting (right?). I was also not aware a character could take a shield and an add. hand weapon, how does this work ingame?

    I'll also move the banners around like you suggested, makes more sense that way, and I'm sure ten warhounds can keep my knights from running where I don't want them. Also, I should have been clearer and said I don't want them smashing the nearest gits into the ground, smashing things is fine by me! Besides, one of the staffers swore by his frenzied knights, why fix what ain't broke?

    Thanks for the advice on the units, I've seen some people complain about Shaggoths not being worth their points but I'm sure you know what you're talking about, an again I should have been clearer, I would take my warriors in units of 12, but even 12 of them is big and nasty Thanks for the advice for casters, I think a nurgle prince would be most effective, and 1 or 2 tzeentch sorcerers would likely get the job done. I'm not too keen on the LoS anyways, though it seems it could definately be situationally useful.

    Again thanks, just trying to start up Fantasy, now to coerce one of my store's staffers to teach me how to play

    EDIT: Oh and my champions will eventually be gone, I'm sure their overeagerness to get eaten by enemy characters will become evident, thouh Eye of the Gods is nice.


    EDIT2: More questions, what are the rules for flails and can you repeat magic items and magic banners in the army? Also, what do Battle Standard Bearers do? A lot of armies seem to include one, and besides the ability to run Banner of the Gods I have neither an idea of why to have one or what model to use. I could probably use a xhampion model with a banner hand though.
    Last edited by Shaggoth; August 9th, 2009 at 03:33.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Thanks for the response and some clear up about frenzy. I think I will take MoK off my hero, pity he loses fury, I must have not read his rules closely enough! I think moving MoN onto him and MoS onto my marauders will make them difficult to kill at range, as MoN extends to his unit for shooting (right?). I was also not aware a character could take a shield and an add. hand weapon, how does this work ingame?
    You're very welcome! Glad my comments were of some use to you.

    I completely missed the Additional Hand Weapon on your Hero, sorry. Unfortunately, you can't take advantage of both an Additional Hand Weapon and a Magic Weapon. By using the Axe of Khorne you stop your Hero using his Additional Hand Weapon, so you can just swap it for a Shield instead.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    I'll also move the banners around like you suggested, makes more sense that way, and I'm sure ten warhounds can keep my knights from running where I don't want them. Also, I should have been clearer and said I don't want them smashing the nearest gits into the ground, smashing things is fine by me! Besides, one of the staffers swore by his frenzied knights, why fix what ain't broke?
    Frenzied Knights - assuming you can control them properly - are one of, if not the single most destructive unit in our army.

    Re: your Warhounds, run them in two separate groups, rather than one unit of ten. You get more control and flexibility that way.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Thanks for the advice on the units, I've seen some people complain about Shaggoths not being worth their points but I'm sure you know what you're talking about
    Ah, see, I just love the model, the fluff and the damn big-and-nasty-and-scariness factor. I think to get the most benefit from Shaggoths, you need to be running a "hehehe, what are you going to shoot first?" list, with Dragons and Shaggoths and big Knight units to properly flummox your opponent and give them too many really, really scary targets to focus on. You'll get pincushioned - make no mistake about it - and attract shots, magic and whatnot like nobodies business; but the things are big, they're tough and they can withstand a reasonable beating while distracting from the rest of your army progressing inexorably across the table.


    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    I would take my warriors in units of 12, but even 12 of them is big and nasty
    Gotcha. I just wrote a list that had a unit of 12 Warriors with a static combat resolution of +4, which I rather like. They're almost unshiftable even with only +1 static combat resolution, so +4 should be worth seeing!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Thanks for the advice for casters, I think a nurgle prince would be most effective, and 1 or 2 tzeentch sorcerers would likely get the job done. I'm not too keen on the LoS anyways, though it seems it could definately be situationally useful.
    Nurgle Daemon Prince with the Mantle of Chaos and Fury of the Blood God has to be about your best possible points refusal in our army. Nasty, nasty unit also. Can cause some serious damage. Low-level Tzeentch is nifty - flying around and hitting Flickering Fire reliably on one dice is nasty. Don't overlook the low-level Nurgle casters, though - hard-casting Buboes is a very good way of removing any Characters and Standard Bearers.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Again thanks, just trying to start up Fantasy, now to coerce one of my store's staffers to teach me how to play
    You're welcome once again. Go learn the game. If you're coming from 40K, you should find it much more tactically challenging and involving; you sound quite sensible and mature (!), so I can only assume that you'll find those aspects of the game rewarding. It's a much more adult game than 40K, in my opinion!

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    Noted on the add. hand weapon and hounds, thats DP is an absolute beast, dunno if I should buy Be'lakor or wait for the rumored plastic set for mine though. And +4 cr warriors...yikes...

    Revised list, no points costs because I was too lazy to total:


    Exalted Hero
    -Shield
    -MoN
    -Favour of the Gods
    -Axe of Khorne

    12 Warriors
    -MoK
    -Banner of Wrath
    -Full Command
    -Add. Hand Weapons

    12 Warriors
    -MoS
    -Shields
    -Blasted Standard
    -Full Command

    20 Marauders
    -MoS
    -Shields
    -Full Command

    5 Warhounds

    5 Warhounds

    5 Knights
    -MoT
    -Banner of Rage
    -Full command


    Hmm, just though revently though that MoK knights with the Blasted Standard would have a slightly better ward save, but at 15 points more...

    Also, please see above for my edited in questions.

    Thanks!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    EDIT2: More questions, what are the rules for flails and can you repeat magic items and magic banners in the army?
    Flails give you +2 strength in the first round of combat; thereafter you revert to your normal strength. They require two hands to use.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Also, what do Battle Standard Bearers do? A lot of armies seem to include one, and besides the ability to run Banner of the Gods I have neither an idea of why to have one or what model to use. I could probably use a xhampion model with a banner hand though.
    Battle Standard Bearers let you reroll failed Break Tests for all units within 12", plus they give you an extra +1 static combat resolution as per a normal banner.

    (That's how my Warriors have a +4 static combat resolution: one rank, one Standard Bearer, one Battle Standard Bearer and the Warbanner. They're also Stubborn with Ld9 due to the Banner of the Gods and the army general being nearby. Not likely to run anywhere, I'm hoping!)
    ----------
    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Exalted Hero
    -Shield
    -MoN
    -Favour of the Gods
    -Axe of Khorne
    Except for the lack of mount, I like this Character.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    12 Warriors
    -MoK
    -Banner of Wrath
    -Full Command
    -Add. Hand Weapons
    A very dangerous unit. I'd be tempted to use Halberds instead of Additional Hand Weapons - and I'd always give them Shields for the save against shooting (if you can model them, but I seem to recall you saying your models are already made and painted?).

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    12 Warriors
    -MoS
    -Shields
    -Blasted Standard
    -Full Command
    These guys are going to be hard to shift. I'd give them Shields and Halberds for the versatility. It's not many extra points - and in a list where you're actively looking to use as many points as possible, there's no reason not to.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    20 Marauders
    -MoS
    -Shields
    -Full Command
    Any reason they don't have Light Armour? For an extra 20 points, you can't really go wrong!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    5 Warhounds

    5 Warhounds
    Woop-woop!

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    5 Knights
    -MoT
    -Banner of Rage
    -Full command
    Nice unit. Fast, killy and difficult to hurt.

    Quote Originally Posted by Shaggoth View Post
    Hmm, just though revently though that MoK knights with the Blasted Standard would have a slightly better ward save, but at 15 points more...
    The Blasted Standard only wards against shooting attacks, where the Mark of Tzeentch wards against all attacks; and the Mark of Khorne gives a standard Frenzy, which is lost if your unit loses combat, whereas the Banner of Rage gives a special Frenzy that cannot be lost.

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    Ah ok, thankyou!

    I'm planning on converting both my dragon lord and Kholek soon. My lord is simply "steal a knight and put him on dragon" but I ordered a large Mcfarlane dragon to make him stand out from the HE conversions.

    Kholek won't be as straghtforward as he will, particularily because my sculpting ability is zilch. I wanna make him big, so I was thinking a large action figure of a troll or something combined with a dinosaur toy might work well.

    I also have a BattleWagon on the go for my Orks, I really should finish that...

    My only problem wit expanding my army is money, I worked part time for quite a whole and have been cruising on the few thousand dollars I made but now I'm down to about 500 and so I will need to get another job this school year. Until that happens (non-hiring environment) I don't plan on buying very much other than the knights and a chaos champion on steed to replace the lucky guy getting put on my dragon.

    To this end, which units that I've stated I wanted would you say are worth purchasing first?

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    First things you want to get are:

    Marauder Horsemen
    Sorcerers
    Mounted Heroes

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