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This week I have a game of 3000 pts coming up against high elves, and I am a bit in doubt about how to counter it.
I know for certain that he will be bringing a dragon, and most likely Teclis. I am considerinag running 2 lvl 4s, one Slaanesh (mounted on a dragon?) and a Tzeentch Sorcerer lord mounted on a disc. Still I doubt that I will be able to dominate the magic phase as teclis is just one nasty bugger.
I normally never use Fast Cavalry against high elves, since they strike first and normally destroy the unit before it gets to strike, is this a mistake?
Any suggestions how to deal with such a list?
Should I try to counter the Dragon with a dragon, or focus entirely on bringing more magic and more troops, and try to deal with it this way.
Finally is there any way of succesfully dealing with Teclis other than Buboes spam?
(sorry if the post is incoherent, I am currently at work, will have a look later)
teclis eh? that calls for one special person....Villitch the Curseling!!! hahahaha, that should clear that problem,
You could try a dragon to counter his, togheter with villith and 2 other sorcerors (preferably nurgle to snipe at teclis or other mages) and yeah, probably just stick to hard ass troops like knights and warriors, though try and see if you have the points for say, 2 or 3 units of marauder horsemen. Dont use them for frontal charges but as support in the flanks of say for instance spearmen wich will have a lot harder time to kill all of those 5 khorne horsemen with flails (20 attacks of wich 10 on strenght 5! woohoo!!)
hope this helped you
The only good thing to say about Villich imo is that he knows all 6 spells, which could prove useful when I use the spell familiar on my dragon sorcerer.
I think I would prefer having my Tzeentch Sorcerer on a Disc.
Vilitch is absolutely your man. He is guaranteed to know the spell Pandaemonium, which directly counters one of Teclis' two most powerful abilities. Having a second sorcerer with the infernal puppet is also a great idea, of course, if he's bringing a a strong magic phase. I wouldn't worry about the dragon very much, just use the Banner of the Gods and the rapturous standard and he'll really have no way of dealing with protracted combats.
You don't even need a special character. They're just too expensive.
Take 2 lvl 4 sorcerers, and 2 lvl 2's, if you havent agreed to a magic lvl max.
One of them goes with spell familiar and lore of slanesh.
Now, in this lore there are 3 spells that is extremely useful to you. If you get two of them, that should do it.
Use this on either the Dragon or some Dragon Princes (especially if you dont get Ecstatic Seizures), and use Horsemen or Dogs to bail them in a bad position (especially the dragon) where you can get a unit with high SCR and/or some hard hitters (Dragon Ogres, Exalted with flail etc) in a good flank/rear charge position.
This spell is used as the spell above, just much easier to use. Pick a place to make the Dragon go, and either just place it way off your troops, or again place it in a good position to be charged by your units.
This spell is an Elf killer. Use this on Dragon Princes, (spearmen), and Phoenix Guards - remember it also negates their Ward Save!! If you get this spell, the HE player will most likely use everything they got to dispel this, and if they do, they'll likely suffer from on of the spells above, which can be just as devastating (especially against a dragon).
The other lvl 4 mage and the two lvl 2's can be equipped and marked just as you like. Remember Flickering Fire doesn't work against the dragon (most likely) and Dragon Princes.
Infernal Gateway is fun on the dragon :p but you better go with a Daemon Prince with Tentacles if you're heading for that!
using slaneesh and death magic could do a number on the HE Uber Characters. I've been leaning towards a psychology-killer army myself and it's worked pretty well.
Death Magic: Doom and darkness is a often overlooked spell, but -3 leadership is pretty nasty, combined with the doom totum or a hellcannon shot and your talking some nasty stuff.
Slaneesh Magic: as stated above. there are some great spells to work with against the pansy elves.
Tzeech Magic: Pandomonium + above stated spells = extra cheese
Hellcannon: Able to deal some good damage from afar and cause panic tests, it's also a CC monster, being Unbreakable @ T6, it can hold up mostly anything until the end of the game comes around. The missfire table can really suck, but the one that causes each caster to miscast could be worth the points in combination with the infernaal puppet.
Thanks for the input so far.
In 3000 points I could really see the dragon prove useful, as it will also force him to worry about it. It could also be a good way to get the slaanesh magic where I want it, and with 2 added breath weapons in a nasty position that should prove to be a killer, and it can force him to reconsider placement of his dragon.
Pandaemonium is definately a nice one to have, and so is Gateway, this could make me reconsider bringing Vilitch as I am guaranteed both spells, the only bummer is lacking a disc, again also because I am using the spell familiar elsewhere.
It basicly boils down to the following, Banner of the Gods on a BSB or a Dragon for my sorcerer.
I don't want to overspend on characters and 2 lvl 4's, 1 lvl 2 and either a BSB or a Dragon should be plenty.
I wouldnt take a Dragon against HE.
If he's playing to win, he'll take some bolt throwers to nail any large targets. 3 bolt throwers would force your Dragon to cover behind forests and hills, where they wont do much terror/dmg. And then you'll be forced to put your Dragon into combat every round, and just hope the enemy unit wont break after the first round.
If you are reckless enough to ignore these 2 options, you'll get shot down by turn 2 :/
A Daemon prince is a nice choice, because he's not a Large Target, so you can hide him behind your own troops (or his) to cover from the nasty Bolt Throwers, or/and give him a nice Gift of Chaos that gives him 4+ ward save from magic and Magic Resistance(2).
Banner of the gods + Dragon Ogres, could kill a dragon tho!
A daemon prince might be a better option, but that makes me a bit dependant on rolling up Gateway, or with Lore of slaanesh the #6 spell.
On the plus side it would allow me to use the spell familiar on a regular Sorcerer Lord on Disc and use a Slaaneshi Daemon prince. Sadly Tendrils is alot less potent without using Tzeentch magic.
For the most reliable Magic Phase i guess Villitch and a Disc Sorcerer could prove very reliable and allow me to threaten with Gateway on two parts of the battlefield.
Do you reckon I will miss the slaaneshi magic ?
and finally Isn't banner of the gods incredibly risky with Vauls unmaking ?
Good point about Vauls Unmaking, thats one dangerous spell and prolly too dangerous when he got Teclis many IF's.
I think you'll miss the Slaanesh magic a lot. You dont need the Disc Sorcerer imo. Villitch and a Slaanesh sorc or DP will do the job. You can either put the Slaanesh sorc in a Marauder unit on a Boobworm or by himself on a Boobworm, which gives him M10 fast cav. The Dragon is Large Target, so you should be able to cast the Slaanesh spells on it from almost anywhere if you're on a Boobworm.
The Spell familiar can be put to good use on the Slaanesh Sorcerer, giving him a good chance of getting all the 3 kick-elf-ass spells described above
You could use an Exalted on a Disc to get rid of potential Eagles tho. Marchblocking is always bad for you. And if he don't take Eagles, you can use him to kill Bolt Throwers or Marchblock some Dragon Princes