Fairly invincible unit

[andre]

Hi, I dont play warriors of chaos, but I took my lizardmen against them yesterday at 2500pts. It was pretty even game until the last turn when my slann died and both my stegadons ran off. All this cost about 1000 victory points and handed solid vicotry to my opponent.
Anywho, he ran a unit of 26 Chosen with mark of tzeentch and two warshrines, he aslo had something on the unit champion that meant he could add +1 to his eye of gods roll. Im not totally sure how he did it, but basically he was guaranteed to have this unit with a 3+ ward save and stubborn + 1 other gift. Making a frankly disgusting unit. I just wondered if this had been brought up on here before...

[talismanictattoo]

1) 26 is a HUGE unit of Chosen. Thats almost 500 points with nothing but shields. For that cost I would surely prefere multiple units of knights.
2)the item is called favor of the gods, and it allows you to adjust the roll by +/- 1
3) Eye of the gods guarantees NOTHING. he has to roll on the table at the start for his perma- bonus, and then he has to roll each time a warshrine wants to give him a boost. The 3+ wardsave and stubborn is normall a 12 on the table, so he would need to roll 11 or 12 to take it. That isn't exactly what I would call a guaruntee.

[DraagDarkfire]

I think that by guarantee he means that since he rolled 3 times on eye of the gods, getting to modify the result and re rolling same results, the chances of getting an 11 or 12 where very high...as were the chances of a double 1 (which cant be modified by favor)

Was He using a special character as lord (Called Valkia) by any chance?

[andre]

No special characters.
But the logic was something along the lines of:
Chosen can re-roll 2s and 7s on the table.
So if he rolls 3,6or 8 he can re-roll.
He has had 1 pregame roll, which he'll use to take out another number, either 4,5,9,10.
Then he has the 1st warshrine, which takes out another of those numbers. This means he can keep re-rolling the 2nd warshrine as he'll only ever be 1 away from a number he already has or is 2 or 7, so he can just keep going until he rolls 11 or 12.
Brings up the question whether these re-rolls count as fails, in which case he could only re-roll once. But I dont think this is the case.

[DraagDarkfire]

As i understand it re rolling the 2 and 7 results only apply to the first roll, the free one he gets because he is chosen.

Gifts given by warshrines which score a natural 2 can't be re rolled with favor of he gods.

[shakedown47]

No special characters.
But the logic was something along the lines of:
Chosen can re-roll 2s and 7s on the table.
So if he rolls 3,6or 8 he can re-roll.
He has had 1 pregame roll, which he'll use to take out another number, either 4,5,9,10.
Then he has the 1st warshrine, which takes out another of those numbers. This means he can keep re-rolling the 2nd warshrine as he'll only ever be 1 away from a number he already has or is 2 or 7, so he can just keep going until he rolls 11 or 12.
Brings up the question whether these re-rolls count as fails, in which case he could only re-roll once. But I dont think this is the case.

I'm not an authority, but I would consider that cheating. Chosen have to re-roll results of 2 and 7 on their initial, pre-game EotG roll. Rolling an 8, which is a valid result for the chosen, and then using the Favour of the Gods to modify it down to an ineligible result is at best against the spirit of the game and that particular aspect of the Chosen, and at worst an outright case of cheating.

[Son of Bretonnia]

shakedown47: IMO opinion that's not cheating. It's just using the items you have.
An example. You pay a lot of points for chosen. So I would like them to have to gift I want them to have. IMO +1 thoughnes and devine greatness are the best.
So if I role a 8. Wich is magic resistance 3 if I remember it correctly. if I change it into a 9 I would get +1 LD . And if I make it a 7 I would get a re-roll. So I have more chance of rolling something better. Why not do it????? especially when I play against an magic-low army.


andre: Even though 26 tzeentch chosen with devine greatness (3+ ward save and stubborn) is an unit that just won't die. It costs him so many points that he won't have a big army left. chosen only move 4 inch so there not fast to. you could easely use some skinks to let them stand in front of this unit. Meanwhile the rest of your army could destroy the tiny chaos army around it.

[DraagDarkfire]

shakedown47: IMO opinion that's not cheating. It's just using the items you have.
An example. You pay a lot of points for chosen. So I would like them to have to gift I want them to have. IMO +1 thoughnes and devine greatness are the best.
So if I role a 8. Wich is magic resistance 3 if I remember it correctly. if I change it into a 9 I would get +1 LD . And if I make it a 7 I would get a re-roll. So I have more chance of rolling something better. Why not do it????? especially when I play against an magic-low army.


andre: Even though 26 tzeentch chosen with devine greatness (3+ ward save and stubborn) is an unit that just won't die. It costs him so many points that he won't have a big army left. chosen only move 4 inch so there not fast to. you could easely use some skinks to let them stand in front of this unit. Meanwhile the rest of your army could destroy the tiny chaos army around it.

I think you hit the spot with this comment. There is nothing which tells you you cant move the roll to a "re roll", you are just being intelligent in using ur items. Too bad this only works effectively on a unit of chosen.It would be great to make a unit of knights stubborn and 4+ wardsave with toughness 5!

[Boskie43]

I don't play WoC but multiple guys do in my store and one of the basic tenants of warhammer is you CANNOT RE-ROLL a RE-ROLL... essentially you either have it or you simply lose on it its ability for the turn...

Now if you WoC players all see it differently thats fine, I just know how its played around here.

[DraagDarkfire]

I don't play WoC but multiple guys do in my store and one of the basic tenants of warhammer is you CANNOT RE-ROLL a RE-ROLL... essentially you either have it or you simply lose on it its ability for the turn...

Now if you WoC players all see it differently thats fine, I just know how its played around here.

It is played wrongly because it really doesnt make sensse to pay an extra 3 points per model just to get a roll on the chart at the beginning of the game and then if you get the number seven twice (st time, reroll, seven, stop) you get nothing.

Now as for other rolls, the eye states.... same results must be rerolled, and in my opinion this is an exception to the re-roll rule...it simply wouldn't make sense to pay for a warshrine to give gifts and then not getting any. I know that moving the result on purpose on a result u alredy have just to re roll it sounds a bit worng..but there isnt anything which prohibits it in the item's rules.