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From what I have read on these threads so far, the WoC Community generally focuses on 2 of their strongest assets: magic and Close Combat. But we are rather strong in a third area, that of Psychology. not only do we have such great defence against it, but we also have a great range of troops and gear that make it work offensivly.
Now, I understand that a primary reason these are not used is that three of the hardest armies, Deamons, Vampires and TK are completly immune to it, and it would seem silly to hit them where you can't hurt them, espeshally when we are already (allegedly) handicapped against them.
But keep in mind, we STILL have awesome Magic and CC at our disposal, that and a bit of luck an army like this still has some potential agaist these guys.
Those armies aside, I've been playing with some lists that include some of the following:
Mages of the lore of Death, Slaneesh, and Tzeech
Character with Diabolical Splendor
So far the combinations have worked better than I could have hoped. -1ldr on almost someones entire army to start, and then additional modifiers added to that from other affects. Denying charaters leadership, constent panic tests, fear and terror running rampent. . . . It won't nessisarily Kill and wipe out entire units, but it can totally shatter the plans and tactics of your oponent, forcing him to "plan B", if indeed he has one. Once that happens, We start calling the shots of who dies and when.
So what do you all think? Am I totally off my rocker, or is there some potential to this style of play? Has anyone else tried running an army with this kind of focus, or is anyone else interested in trying it for themselves and reporting their results? I'm having a bit of trouble finding opponents these days, 40k has totaly taken over my store for the time being.
Kudos on your plans,
I'm not anywhere near being able to paint or field a Hellcannon yet, but I am definitely looking towards getting one. I've heard yes and no as to whether they are reliable or not, but it seems against any armies that weren't mentioned by you, blasting away and causing panic tests would be pretty useful.
Do post how the Hellcannon has worked for you as I'd be very interested in seeing some more tactics and opinions.
I always include a hellcannon in my lists, and they always justify their spot on the battlefield, apart from a few freak accidents of blowing up in turn 1.
To me atleast the hellcannon is more valuable as an unbreakable flank protecting monster, than as an artillery piece. Still the shooting is nice, and forces your opponent to be slightly more careful. with placing chariots, single characters and other things, because with a little practice you will hit them 1/3 of the time, and no lone character wants that.
To stay on topic i have never used the doomtotem, mainly because I mainly play against VC and Dwarves.
I'm in concurance with azhrar in that it's more valuable as a flank protector. , sometimes I just want to beg people to shoot at it so it can test on 4 insted of 9 for it's restraint.
The shooting is really good, but after about turn 3 your choice of targets tend to get very slim, and risky. of course, by that time their heavy calv is close enough to charge rang.
As to wheter or not they are reliable, I'd have to say they are as reliable as rolling a d6. sometimes amazing things happen, and sometimes the goats are out of their pens.
The best game: Turn 1 paniced a unit of high elf bowmen and their caster inside. in another game it also destroyed a bolt RBT and crew turn one. last game was rather the worst, as it only managed to would 2 black gaurd ad 3 spearmen in one turn, and they passed their ld 6 panic test.then it failed a restrain and ran into the woods.
But I still love the crazy guy! I was always a bit jelous of orcs and goblins for having such sillyness in their army, and the HC is a small taste of that now.
Last edited by talismanictattoo; August 24th, 2009 at 11:19.
Daemon prince with splendor + bsb on disk with doom totem (so everyone could see him ) might force even dwarfs to run (-2 LD terror test for half of his army... ouch).
But as you said, there are so many armies that are utterly immune to psychology, that its hardly cost-effective to justify focusing on it.
Be what you are I tell myself. And myself tells me we can't be anybody else (c)DP
Slaanesh Daemon prince w diabolic splendor and Mantle (or blessing of the blood god to keep him cheap) with Doom totem and Hellcannons (plural) or Warshrines (they can make units into terror causers)
Use knights and Daemonic mounts on heroes in units that don't normally cause fear (Warriors etc) so that everything is a fear causer.
The hellshriek from the Daemon prince would be a -2ld Panic test for all in a radius.
For added awesome, take more slaanesh wizards. multiple wizards causing multiple panic tests per turn is going to make most things that will possibly run, run most of the time.
I've been thinking about proxying a list something like this:
DP, Lvl4, MoS, tendrils, diabolic splendour
Exalted, MoT, Disc, Flail, Shield, BSB, Doom Totem
5 mara horse, MoK, flails, Musi
5 knights, MoT
so only the puppies (bait anyway) and the mara horse (cruise missile for hitting flanks) don't cause fear at a minimum, with the BSB somewhere visible you're looking at terror tests and hellshriek panic tests from the DP at -2 LD, hellcannon hits at -2 LD, fear tests from practically everything at -1 LD
it obviously wouldn't do as well vs ITP armies but i dont think it would do too badly as really the only redundant unit is the BSB, the DP is still pretty good in CC and is guaranteed at least 1 spell that works vs ITP. The hellcannon becomes an assault unit as opposed to a shooty unit
I'd Drop the Puppues, the warshrine, and the mark on the BSB (and removing him from the disc). Change the Knights to Nurgal (lowering chances to hit is better than saves), and see if you can squeeze enough points for dragon ogres or warriors (you can put the BSB in with the warriors, so that is prefereable).
The army you listed lacks reliablity. 2 flying solo characters will be at the mercy of shooting, and the trolls are stupid. that leaves your knights being the only thing you can truely count on, and they will be outnumberd.
I don't really know if a DP of slaneesh is nessisary. Only a few of the spells you will want to be casting, tho flying with the hellshriek could prove devistating, I don't see the cost of the DP justifying it. a level 2 or 3 wizard would work well, and could be geared up bette.r I would also put the 3rd eye of tzeech on a slaneeesh caster as you then have the option of taking your opponent's spells if yours do not match the situation well.
I do Like the Idea of Throgg, and while I haven't used trolls myself I think they have potential, tho currently I don't think your flyers will be close enough to use either of their leadership on them to prevent them from picking their noses.
FOr the hero set up I would go with a
Lv4 Slaaneshi dp -
diabolic splendour (for terror bombing)
Fury of the cloodgod (for magic protection)
third eye of tzeentch (to copy spellsjust in case you meet an ITP army)
Lv2 Unmarked sorcerer -
Book of secrets (To take 3 spells from lore of death and with a bit of luck get the opportunity to get double the spell which lowers LD, also if going against itp armis you change lore to fire)
Power familiar (always love those extra dice)
MoT Bsb With Doom totem -
Unit choices i would try to include
3 units of slaaneshi Horsemen
2 units of knights (MoK. MoN)
I am not sure about the point costs because i dont have the book handy at d moment but i think there will be some points remaining when going for a 2250 army
I like the DP setup draag posted, too used to the MoT lvl 6 spell needing tendrils that i forgot the slaaneshi one has a much lower casting value and doesn't really need the buff
having a single block of warriors makes no sense to me. everything else would be storming across the field with the warriors left behind eating dust
if i do drop the trolls then that lvl 2 sorc setup =isone i commonly use already (though i tend to mark it) but in this army style unmarked is def the way forward
the warshrine was there to combo with the trolls mutant regen rolls and also as a nice tarpit, if the trolls go then so does this and in comes hell cannon #2