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how to combat a full caster DE list. I am thinking that I have two options, either match him by going all out magic and then letting my CC mop up when I get in there, OR I can go no magic (maybe a scroll caddy) and just go with MR on all my builds. Have any of you had any success with either of these options? I have matched him with full magic and that pretty much nerfed both of our magic phases with him inching out ahead slightly. The difference being that his shooting phase was somewhat dangerous while I got into combat with him. It worked but not decisively.
So I am interested in trying the other route out and seeing if it is effective. Is there enough MR to go around to really protect a CC army? It seems like a lord and 2 heros can be outfitted to give 3 units MR (2,2,1) and if you throw in a Warshrine it seems like you have decent odds (if a hero has Favor of the Gods) of getting one unit with MR 3.
It seems like the idea is that if we went with this route we would want to go with as few models as possible so they could be protected. How would you guys suggest cracking a DE using full compliment of casters + bolt throwers and turtling using a close combat army?
I would go with the CC MR choice.
Take 1 scroll caddy with 2 scrolls.
Take a lord with collar of Khorne and pimp him up for battle. Put him on steed or demonic mount an throw him in a unit of knights.
Take an exalted hero, make him BsB without banner on steed and throw him in a unit of knights. Give the knights rapturous standard as they will have greater chance of holding ground. Mark Them nurgle for survivability.
Take 2 hellcannons. Fire them at will and pray for misfires and No3. That will crush his magic. They will also suck a lot of shooting. Just be careful in case they get targeted by pit of shades...hold the scrolls just in case he manages to cast it.
I used this build build against a magic heavy DE list and i won. From my experience i learnt that you need to protect you knights and CHariots as soon as those arrive in cc you win the game.
Makes sense. I guess I should have also included a point total for our typical game ( 2250 ) as a reference.
Would you go with all cav to get over there, or would you take warriors and knights?
Last edited by ShackledEidolon; August 25th, 2009 at 23:27.
I am a sworn all cav list lover!
Knights are the best thng our book has to offer so it only maes sense to make them the centre of your army.
Throw in 3 - 4 units of horsemen as support (2 unis MoS and t Axes, and 2 units MoK Flails LA)
hounds can also serve a good cause as meat shields/ sorcerer hunters.
One word: Pandimonim. Take a few tzeech casters to gaurantee this spell, and it will criple his magic phase. what use is all those dice of your constently misscasting? then take the infernal puppet and whenever possible end the magic phase. the longer it stays in effect, the more he hurts himself.
Also, Bring the Golden eye of tzeech. you will gain the spell POWER OF DARKNESS and boost your own casting dies. Dark Magic works great against those spitting it out at you.
Also, watch where he puts those casters. if he's one of those guys that sticks em in with the crossbowmen, take a discrider of tzeech with the golden eye and enchanted shield. He can hit those bowlines fast and survive the hail of doom, and @ 5 str 5 attacks he should be able to win combat based on wounds (static res of outnumber and possibly hill on first turn)
Hey I'd say go with Draag's suggestion of Cav and magic resistance. As funny as pandemonium would be the dark elves will still have a fair amount of dispel dice, so you would have to invest a lot in casters to get it off.
The problem I always find with dark elves is that they can marchblock with dark riders and then just shoot/ magic you to pieces with the rest of the army. If your opponent is literally making a turtle formation then that's great, it allows you to reach him quicker without having to worry about march blocking.
Like Draag said take a unit of knights with the mark of nurgle, although I'd take the banner of rage over any others - this will give your knights frenzy and -1 from shooting (nurgle/ khorne knights, what's not to like!)
Make sure to put the Bronze armour of Zhraak or the necrotic phylacetry on any combat characters (makes them immune to poison - ie manbane from assassins has no effect.) And obviously magic resistance on each of your characters, which should be placed in the main units.
The other thing I find really effective is chariots. Dark elves cannot get strength 7 (except on assassins with throwing stars...) so chariots become very hard to kill. And impact hits strike before assassins whilst also slaughtering T3 troops.
My guess is that if you have 1-2 units of knights, and 2-3 chariots supported by marauder horse and maybe a cheap 20 man marauder unit to bring up the rear/ keep your scroll caddy in you won't have too many problems with a high magic DE army. I would run your combat characters as exalted champs rather than lords, just because they're half the price and dish out nearly as much damage.
That's enough from me - hope it helps!
Thanks again. I think looking at his play style he will likely use march blocking while turtling casting/shooting.
I'm thinking I'll use marauder horsemen to hold the rear of my Knights so that if they land behind me or on the side they can engage them and let the knights run free. I was thinking 3 units of 5x horsemen 2 of which would be slaanesh throwing axe units, and the other would be the flail khorne unit. Then 3 units of 5x knights, one with MoT and blasted banner leading, and keeping the other two frenzied units of knights out of combat until I want them to go. Have 2 units of warhounds. 3 combat heroes, a scroll caddy, and a lord on a disc to hunt his flyers and warmachines
how does that sound?
Yeah I'd say you're right, any shooting/ high magic army really should be looking to marchblock and slow your approach so he'll probably use dark riders.
That sounds like a pretty nice list, only a couple of things I'd think of:
- 3 units of knights can get a little crammed in, so if you have the models or want to give it a shot then I reckon running 2 chariots and 2 knights would be a good way to go. 2 Chariots can easily dispatch of a fully ranked unit on the charge or can be used in conjunction with a knight unit.
- The lord on the disc seems a little overkill since he'll be hunting T3 warmachine crews. Disc is a good idea though so just make him a hero with MoT, Eye of Tzeentch, flail etc... that is unless you have any expensive item combos you wanted to try?
- Marauder horse with axes work a charm, just make sure to keep them behind the knights so they don't get shot or killed by magic.
Other than that good luck and let us all know how you go in the game!
The puppet/black tongue combo would be worth taking (surprised it hasn't come up yet). His expensive caster will likely fail a casting roll sooner or later - force the miscast then alter the result to hopefully either wound the caster or at worst substantially cripple his magic phase.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
As much as i hate it i have to disagree with you.... I really hate the black tongue as find it really not worth paying 50 points on a sorcerer or a lord which will cost you god knows how much and then wounding him just to try stop 1 magic phase. Yes it will mean you got 1 wound instead of maybe taking a blast from spirit of the forge on your knights, but as you alread said: one of his casters might fail a spell sooner or later.
This technically means that you cannot choose when to use it and you have to wait for that if which might also never come. Plus you have to take a wound which is a great turn off.
I think that MR will do great. Just pray against any IFs he might get.