Whip of Subversion Question - Warhammer 40K Fantasy
 

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    Member darcchipmunk's Avatar
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    Whip of Subversion Question

    So I was looking at the whip of subversion and came up with some fun ideas for it, I'm just not sure if it's legal.

    For those unsure it says that unsaved wounds are directed at the models own side.

    So here are my questions:

    a) in a 1on1 fight (not a challenge), would the model attack itself?
    b) if the model had regen, would these effect still happen even if it passed its regen save?
    c) if in a challenge, would the model have to attack itself, or its unit?

    That's all for now. Anyways, let me know what you guys think.

    cheers,

    Black Templar (W/D/L): 4/6/2
    Dark Eldar (W/D/L): 4/1/0
    Warriors of Chaos (W/D/L): 3/0/1

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  3. #2
    Schemer dapredator66's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by darcchipmunk View Post
    So I was looking at the whip of subversion and came up with some fun ideas for it, I'm just not sure if it's legal.

    For those unsure it says that unsaved wounds are directed at the models own side.

    So here are my questions:

    a) in a 1on1 fight (not a challenge), would the model attack itself?
    b) if the model had regen, would these effect still happen even if it passed its regen save?
    c) if in a challenge, would the model have to attack itself, or its unit?

    That's all for now. Anyways, let me know what you guys think.

    cheers,

    a) No. It is written "other models from it's own side".
    b) No. Regen is still a save.
    c) I am pretty sure you can attack the unit with him even in challenge. If he is alone or not in base contact with someone else the item won't work.

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    the only use i've thought of for this weapon is for hitting characters on monstrous mounts. use whip and helm of many eyes to ensure you ASF, maybe on a disc rider

    attack the dragon/manticore/whatever hope you inflict a wound. Said mount will then wail on its rider - this could be hilarious vs someone on a manticore as they have killing blow xD

    but even this isn't particularly reliable, I'd rather have a flail

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    Member whatfruit's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by VampireCabbage View Post
    the only use i've thought of for this weapon is for hitting characters on monstrous mounts. use whip and helm of many eyes to ensure you ASF, maybe on a disc rider

    attack the dragon/manticore/whatever hope you inflict a wound. Said mount will then wail on its rider - this could be hilarious vs someone on a manticore as they have killing blow xD

    but even this isn't particularly reliable, I'd rather have a flail
    Could you use this against a High Elf stardragon to kill its rider. Or on the rider to attack the dragon in first turn therefore stopping the lance from striking your tanked up chaos lord..

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    Member phfhrockq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by whatfruit View Post
    Could you use this against a High Elf stardragon to kill its rider. Or on the rider to attack the dragon in first turn therefore stopping the lance from striking your tanked up chaos lord..
    Wouldn't work, as the high elves ASF. You can only make a model that hasn't attacked yet hit others from its side.

    Only way to get around this would be the Helm of Many Eyes and to be charging.

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    actually the dragon doesn't have ASF so, assuming you charged or its round 2+ you could use it on the dragon

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    i am da Wahhchief Digger's Avatar
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    @phfhrockq

    note: you override being the charger when both have allways strike first.
    You strike in initiative order, even on the charge. I think high elves have better initiative.

    sorry for the interruption! :p
    Eternal Newbie

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    Depends. The high elves Lords have higher Init, but the mages do not.

    In any case, the highest Initiative for a dragon is 4, so pretty much any WoC Hero/Lord has higher. So technically you might be able to hit the Dragon before he attacks. A star dragon can pretty much ruin the life of any rider he might be carrying. Heck, a Sun Dragon might do it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fizyx View Post
    Depends. The high elves Lords have higher Init, but the mages do not.

    In any case, the highest Initiative for a dragon is 4, so pretty much any WoC Hero/Lord has higher. So technically you might be able to hit the Dragon before he attacks. A star dragon can pretty much ruin the life of any rider he might be carrying. Heck, a Sun Dragon might do it.
    nerf, I was just looking this up and when I alt-tabbed back to the forum you had replied

    This is correct. If you don't have the Helm of Many Eyes then unless the dragon charged you will hit the dragon before it attacks, if you wound it successfully you can make the dragon eat its rider, of course you're hitting on 3's, wounding on 5's and then hoping they fail their (now) 5+ save

    If you do have the helm, regardless of who charged the elf will go first, followed by the chaos lord, followed by the dragon

    If i was going to build a chaos lord (using the whip) to take out a dragon riding elf I'd probably run something like this...

    Lord, Chaos Dragon, Mark of Tzeentch, Chaos Runeshield, Whip of Subversion, Collar of Khorne, Word of Agony

    runeshield to negate whatever magic weapon the elf has, whip because its theme, collar + tzeentch for a 5+ ward save, word of agony to stick D6 hits on the elf to begin

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    Quote Originally Posted by VampireCabbage View Post
    nerf, I was just looking this up and when I alt-tabbed back to the forum you had replied

    This is correct. If you don't have the Helm of Many Eyes then unless the dragon charged you will hit the dragon before it attacks, if you wound it successfully you can make the dragon eat its rider, of course you're hitting on 3's, wounding on 5's and then hoping they fail their (now) 5+ save

    If you do have the helm, regardless of who charged the elf will go first, followed by the chaos lord, followed by the dragon

    If i was going to build a chaos lord (using the whip) to take out a dragon riding elf I'd probably run something like this...

    Lord, Chaos Dragon, Mark of Tzeentch, Chaos Runeshield, Whip of Subversion, Collar of Khorne, Word of Agony

    runeshield to negate whatever magic weapon the elf has, whip because its theme, collar + tzeentch for a 5+ ward save, word of agony to stick D6 hits on the elf to begin
    Say you killed the Rider and you were stuck in combat with the dragon could you use the whip to stop the dragon attacking you?

    Say in first round of combat rider hits me takes 1 wound from me. I hit the dragon wound it it wails and kills its rider. He rolls a 4 on wild monster chart. Next round i strike first hit the dragon again can I say that the dragon makes no attacks.

    I only ask because im probably going to be playing high elves next week with a guy who runs a star dragon list.
    Last edited by whatfruit; October 14th, 2009 at 16:19.

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