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i dig the Chosen models - and just generally their stats.
I have thought, if i want to add defensive powerhouses, would this be a good idea, and justify its cost, or are there better chaos chosen builds?
- halberds and shields
- mark of tzeentch
- full command
- collar of khorne
- the blasted standard
or should i take favour of the gods
This would give them soe extremely defensive stats - hard to take down in ranged - and hurts in melee - and better chance to roll what you want on the eye of the gods table.
other ideas of chosen powerhouses out there (any type)
and what do you think of this build? or would points be better spent elsewhere?
Last edited by Kail; October 21st, 2009 at 13:52. Reason: just failed
Its a good build, but I think the shold have favour, the free roll is so much better when it can be modified.
the tzeentch and blasted standard will keep them saafe from lots of shooting.
if you put a hero with some magic resistance in there, then they're really dynamite.
Sigvald works very well in a unit of chosen.
Festus could be useful as well for that 5+ regen.
Also, its nice to run them with two warshrines to support, then they have 3 belessings that can all be modiefied by the favour.
I think that this defensive build is great. Your only trouble is psychology. It's easy for this unit to fail a panic test (Modifiers like a Screaming Skull Catapult or the Masque) and then waste a turn. It's also easy that they get flanked by something and then lose combat and get run down. I've checked the price, and this unit is 540 points. (I'm assuming that you have a unit of 20, that's what the Chosen powerhouses seem to be) This unit is 540 points and still affected by psych. Not a good deal in my opinion. In the War in the North Campaign Phil Kelly had a unit of 20 Chosen with great weapons, Banner of Rage and the Champion has the Helm of Many Eyes. When you charge them the Champion strikes first with 4 Strength 6 attacks, and then after that it's fairly straightforward from there. This unit is 510 points and much better in combat, but doesn't have the awesome magical protection. That's one "powerhouse" for you to consider.
TBH, unless you have decent backup units to buffer against flank attacks, this sort of unit is going to be prone to being hit from flanks and then losing comabt and as stated being run down. I would tend to use these type of units as small support units, or if they are main line units, spend less on them than proposed, and support with relatively effective and hardened ancillary units - marauder blocks, chaos hounds to intercept flankers, etc.
If this unit is the lynchpin, your opponent will concentrate a serious amount of effort to destroy it, get the easy VPs that doing so will bring, and then worry about the rest of your force. Chosen are extremely good. I would mark Khorne to be Immune to psychology and get the Frenzy so you are more reliable when you hit an enemy unit, and as infantry there is much less risk that you will be drwan out of the battle-line, helm of many eyes model leading them, Blasted standard and rather than halberds, GW and shields. The Halberds are a bit of a false economy - most ways you will not be charging with a main-line block, but receiving the charge, so striking last in teh first round anyway, so you may as well get that strike at S6....
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Really appreciate the help i am getting here !
i will admit though - that my powerhouse is not designed to be a 20 man one. rather a 10 man one in a smaller game. Seen a player putting a defensive unit like this in a smaller army - the opposing player did focus the unit though, but it took so much time that (nearly) the rest of the chaos army did reach the lines.
Giving them the mark of khorne would be a great idea - but then it would be easier to bait the unit...
If you're running a powerhouse defensive regiment like this, it's okay. You're creating an anvil, to hold the rest of your army around. This regiment will either be the one that holds your line, or it will be the one that you cram down your enemy's throat and force him to spend his strongest regiment against.
I personally field a very expensive regiment of GraveGuard in my vampire army, and it suffers all the same weaknesses of cost and vulnerable flanks. However, if you are going to build a defensive anvil, you need to understand that you need aggressive wings in order to do the real damage and clear the way for this unit to keep moving. Otherwise your anvil will hit a hard enemy, do it's job and hold the line, but it will fall behind the rest of your army. These aggressive wings will also protect your flanks. Something like small regiments of Warriors, Cavalry, or medium sized regiments of Marauders, all equipped to swing into the flank of who-ever is fighting the anvil and lay down some serious pain.
Because of this, I would avoid marking the regiment with Khorne. They're going to be a rock-solid regiment that is intended to hold their place in the line. Being baited forward even a few inches can pull you out of formation and leave you stuck against a pointless enemy while exposing your flank to that fatal charge.
As for your regiment, I'd go ahead with it, but make a few alterations:
Take a Shield rather than the Halberd. In a defensive regiment, the extra save will be very helpful. Your regiment is already S4 with the chance of bumping that through EoTG rolls, so I'd rather have a 3+ save v. shooting and a 2+ in combat.
Take a Warbanner rather than the Blasted Standard. This just gives you better Combat Resolution against the enemy. The Mark of Nurgle that I'm about to suggest, and the Shields that I already suggested, will combine to save just as many shots as a 5+ ward would.
Switch the Mark of Slaanesh for the Mark of Nurgle (if the regiment is 20 strong). With the ability to reroll panic checks, the regiment only has to worry about losing to an outnumbering, fear-causing enemy. The chances of that happening are slim, and the chances of that regiment outnumbering a regiment of 20 models is only slightly better. Giving the enemy a -1 to hit you in all phases is even better, as it makes you survivable against anything that gets sent your way.
You could always change the Collar for the Favor, but that's a personal choice. If you have an army with a good Magic Phase, you'll have a good defense already. The MR2 will just keep people from casting against this regiment. The Favor is always good as it will let you adjust your EoTG rolls, and it's increasingly better with the more Shrines that your intend to direct towards your regiment.
Now you have an extremely survivable regiment that gives up very few models to the enemy. It would also make a good shelter for a Battle Standard bearer to help buff the rest of the army around you.
Just remember to protect your flanks with an aggressive force.
He said mark of Tzeentch to make the ward given by the blasted standard a 4+ ward not 5
I would suggest shields, the blasted standard, an you could but the bsb in here if you wanted, as for me I put my Exalted Hero in here with the glaive of putrefaction, just in case I hit something that needed to be lowered lol
I kept the collar and gave my exalted hero the favor of the gods so that they get the plus...
I serve my master and do as he wants. He wants the badlands, thus they will be his.
-Shriva the Damned
If you are able to use special characters in your venue, opt for festus to give those troops a 5+ regenration, as well as shields, blasted standard and mark of tzeentch.
So against a ranged attack you have a 3+ armour save, 4+ ward save and 5+ regeneration.
You could couple festus with any other defensive option provided in this thread, provided you have the space and points to include him.
You could also take Sigvald for his stubborn rule which he would confer on the troops and amke them less susceptible to psychology. An adept player can always use frenzy to their advantage instead of yours, especially vampire counts.
Disregard this post though if you have to play in a tournament, but if you are playing for fun, go for it.
If you decide to choose favour of the gods on your champion instead, consider the fact that you can use this to change a 6 or an 8 to a 7 or a 3 to a 2. This may sound stupid, but you then get an entire new re-roll, knowing that chosen re-roll any negative effects on the eye of the gods table at the start of the battle, in which to get a gift that would make them more defensive and less susceptible to psychology, like rolling double 6's or a 6 and a 5 (4+ ward, Stubborn, really just what this "power house" needs), or terror, which would taste pretty good. Just a good investment of 5 points to consider. Note that characters that are part of the unit are not affected by the God's roll
its worth pointing out that mark of nurgle is not -1 to hit in all phases
its -1 to hit in the shooting phase, but in the CC phase its -1 to their weapon skill when they're hitting you. as your base WS is 6, in combat nurgle will only help when the opponent is WS3 (changes to 5's to hit as opposed to 4's) or WS7 (changes 3's to hit to 4's to hit) if they're WS1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 8, 9, 10 they will still require the same to hit roll
on topic however, I think you have to take favor for a chosen champion, re-rolling your gifts is just too good an opportunity to pass up. And as the above poster said, you can change the roll to a result that lets you re-roll
Throw a warshrine or two into the army list as well and your golden as you can edit those results on your chosen as well (also, they would work as flank protectors for your chosen)
The festus idea is a really good one as well
if you really want to cheese it up you could give the unit the blasted standard with mark of tzeentch (4+ ward vs shooting) and then stick a BSB with the warbanner in there as well for oodles of static combat res
Last edited by VampireCabbage; October 23rd, 2009 at 11:04.