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Thread: Help Vs cheese

  1. #1
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    Help Vs cheese

    Firstly, apologies if this is in the wrong place but since i'm not actually submitting a list i thought this would be most appropriate

    I am looking for some help here fighting against what Iíd consider to be fairly cheesy armies...
    Iím using a fairly standard WoC Cav list with a level 4 Tzeentch sorc lord on a disc and 2 mounted level 2 sorcs, one Nurgle and one Tzeentch Ė not a weak list by any means.
    Iím up against 3 armies, 2 of which Iíve already lost against and both smell a little of stilton (although that could admittedly just be sour grapes).
    The empire army is fielding Grand Theogonist Volkmar, 4 great cannons and 2 steam tanks as well as an awful lot of gunners with archer detachments. I suffered a marginal loss to this list, but am at a loss as to how to deal with the steam tanks.
    The High elf army is fielding 2 dragons, one ridden by a prince and the other by the mage of caledor, 2 tiranoc chariots, 2 RBTs, a unit of 10 dragon princes with FC, a couple of units of archers and 2 war eagles. I suffered a massacre at the hands of this list, losing over 1000pts in turn 1 L
    The wood elf army Iíve not yet faced but Iím thinking heís running with 2 treemen, but donít know what else.
    Is it just me or are these cheesy lists? If so, what is the cheesiest list you can think of that I could put together to face these?


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    Can't help you with the others, but I can point out some weaknesses of the high elves.

    The high elf army could be better, actually. The prince on a dragon is nasty, nasty stuff, but the dragon mage is a different story. The mage's dragon is much weaker than the prince's by a long shot (lower strength, less attacks, fewer wounds), and the mage will crumble like paper no matter what defense it's been given. Try and get into combat with it if you can and take that mage out, then you can run all over him with magic. Even with the mage up, he shouldn't be getting many spells off with your amount of magic, and he's not going to do a whole lot to stop your own spells unless he's a scroll caddy. The dragon mage is pretty hefty in cost, too, so if you can get into combat you've got a good chunk of points right there and it won't take a lot of effort. Despite how scary a dragon looks, the sun dragon that the mage is riding isn't all that great in combat and doesn't need the kind of resources the star dragon requires to take down.

    10 Dragon Princes is a bit overkill, and not in a cheesy sense. It's an ENORMOUS point sink. That's well over 500 points right there at 50 points a pop plus the FC, and he could've had about the same effectiveness at nearly half the cost. If you can at all get a charge on it, you're going to make it very, very, very sad.

    Really the big scary things in that list are the prince on his nasty as hell dragon and the big DP unit. If you can hold the prince in combat somewhere and win through combat res, you can get him to run. The trick, of course, is getting a flying terror-causing dragon that basically chooses when it charges to stay put. Easier said than done, which is why that's really the cornerstone of the list. The big DP unit is going to be easier to make stay put, and once you make it stick in combat at all (i.e., get a charge on them with just about anything, ESPECIALLY in a flank), it's toast.

    Hope that helps a bit!

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    First of all your opponents should go play with LEGO blocks not warhammer if they have those armies. They wouldn't go far in a real tournament ( especially with those army compositions ).

    Anyway, straight to the point.

    When it comes to the EMPIRE, my tip is to make substantial use of marauders/marauder horsemen. They are cheap for what they do and you can give them marks which is a substantial advantage over his infantry.

    You will need to advance fast and get in combat as soon as you can.

    Now, Steam Tanks. Since he is using 2 of those behemoths, it will be near impossible to at least avoid 1 of them. So, a good solution would be to use a high level sorcerer with the Lore of Shadows and use Pit of Shades on his steamtanks. Steam tanks automatically FAIL their initiative tests which means that a steam tank will be taken out in just one successful casting of that spell. Try to avoid close combat with them however and waste his dispel dice before you cast Pit of Shades.

    Against an army like his I think a Hellcannon would be very suitable due to the panic tests etc. his hits cause which is a very ideal. The majority of Empire units are LD7-8. Surely someone will break and even if not, you will cause good damage ( if you guess well.. )

    As for his great cannons you could make use of chaos warshrines. These things tend to attract alot of attention so why not deploy 1 or 2 of these and let them act as shooting targets while your army moves forward ?

    I hope this helped, I am in no way a very experienced player but I've used these things and performed quite well.

    Last but not least, do not go for an elitist army when battling Empire. Go for numbers. Avoid Chaos warriors and make use of knights instead. You will have to be fast,hard hitting and outmanouver your opponent.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miawmiaw1 View Post
    Now, Steam Tanks. Since he is using 2 of those behemoths, it will be near impossible to at least avoid 1 of them. So, a good solution would be to use a high level sorcerer with the Lore of Shadows and use Pit of Shades on his steamtanks. Steam tanks automatically FAIL their initiative tests which means that a steam tank will be taken out in just one successful casting of that spell. Try to avoid close combat with them however and waste his dispel dice before you cast Pit of Shades.
    Sadly, Pit of Shades doesn't work on steam tanks. To add to the ridiculousness of them, they are completely immune to any magic that doesn't try and damage it with an explicitly stated strength value'd attack.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evertras View Post
    Sadly, Pit of Shades doesn't work on steam tanks. To add to the ridiculousness of them, they are completely immune to any magic that doesn't try and damage it with an explicitly stated strength value'd attack.
    Oh well .. Then that leaves us with a Chaos Lord vs steam tank discussion ? We dont rly have much in the way of taking it out then

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    All Cav WoC General Ayliffe's Avatar
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    gateway
    2010 WoC Cav W/L/D - 7/3/1

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    I actually run a khornate exalted with the glaive of putrefaction for this very occasion, can hunt monsters but he can really hurt that tank if he gets his wounds through

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    dragon ogres with great weapons work pretty well as can openers as well

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    I sincerely hope this was in a hard boyz context. These kind of list do not have their place in a friendly game.

    Consider bringing the following items:
    - Dragon with a Nurgle character on top. Maybe a Chaos Lord, preferably armed with a Chaos Runeshield.
    - Banner of the Gods
    - Dragon Ogres with 2-handed weapons. Consider buying a champion and your opponent will start allocating hits each time they hit the DO with shooting, fun fun fun.
    - Hellcannon

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