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Ok, so if you believe the rumors so far:
- Heavy Cav will move like chariots
- Magic Nerf
- step up rule
- archer shooting improovment
What isthe next step for WoC. how can we adapt to %'s, the fact that it will take our knights at least 3 turns to get to the enemy, our magic is probably going to be taken down a notch, HE can now take fairly effective shooting lines, WE are even better shooters now. Our knights can't just wipe out units of infantry and not fear hits back (ie: greatswords, executioners, ect.) On the flip side, now GW on khornate marauders are downright scary. 5 points + the mark for 2 ws 4, S6 attacks, with all 12 attacks almost garunteed!
Your imput is much apriciated;
The changes will by and large make balanced WoC armies much more powerful, IMO. People who liked playing one-note armies, like 14 PD or 1000+ points of characters or all-cav may have a hard time adjusting, but those who have employed infantry blocks and reasonable character levels in 7th edition will love 8th if the rumours are true.
The knight thing, if true, is pretty much crap. At least we're not Brets. Heck, maybe we should go with Dragon Ogres instead? But yeah, not letting them march doesn't make sense to me. I don't think it was that great an advantage. Sure, turn 2 charges hurt, but that means the infantry is still hoofing it across the board while the cav charges ahead. That rule would delay the game a fair amount. And what's weird is that infantry, with movement 4 or 5, could march farther than cavalry moves. To me that makes no sense. A barded steed is still faster than infantry. Now they're going to be slower? (That's all assuming movement 7 with barding).
The step up rule will hurt (and help) us. Going in and trouncing people with warriors means you still could get smacked in return. And chariot's great advantage is that they can take out any return attacks, but no longer, assuming step up is correct. But then our chosen and warriors can swing back, should any actually die.
The % thing would really hack me off if it limits characters. I've been building a WoC army for a year, meticulously assembling and painting it to a high standard. I thought long and hard about my heroes, painted some really nice ones, and have one more very cool one left to go. This would skunk all my work. Also, my army is made to be just somewhat competitive. I'm going for three wins and painting scores at GTs. Ditching my characters really cramps the army as I've designed it.
One friend at my FLGS suggested that the step-up and % rule will have the opposite effect of encouraging core infantry as people will rely on core units that are fast cav, skirmishers, or shooters when possible, and just go with elite infantry that can dish more damage and absorb more damage. Knowing that you can dish some serious hurt whether or not you got the charge is a big boon for elite infantry.
As someone who also plays WEs, do you really want me shooting in two ranks? What if i ran three units of 20 archers that could rank up when threatened and dump 60 str 4 shots on you until that point.
Sorry, I know, I know, I'm being a downer, but these rules rumors don't appeal to me so far. I know I'm not seeing them in context and I know that it will take time to see how the new game plays, but my skepticism is outweighing any enthusiasm at this point.
Its still to early to say.
% hurt current popular builds only having 500 points to spend on character in 2000 point games but i do not believe that's a bad thing as nearly every other army is effected to0, some armies ( Lizardmen, VC and TK) are hurt far more than us.
Heavy Cav not being able to march is a concern but the rumored double move + 2D6 charge will make up for this somewhat. Plus the impact hits.
My understanding of the step up rule is different to yours, my understanding is that models stepping up only get a single attack no matter how many attacks are on the models profile.
I dont believe magic will be nerfed, i believe it will be stronger the only way it will be nerfed if with less characters.
If im honest i think the only one that really appeals to me is the cap on characters, this is simply because i had enough of herohammer in 5th, as the game stands i think far to often we see 1000+ points of characters + a handfull of troops, in alot of ways it seems more like a group of heroes battles through a dugeon than a actual strategy game, the change to heavy cav marching is very interesting. If you ever go a forum and say hey should i use chaos warriors you are normally set on by the hordes of players saying "no, you want 3 units of marauder horsemen and 4 units of chaos knights", simply from the prospective of making more army types viable its a great idea. I dont play warhammer simply because of the rules, i mainly play because of the models (and really there are alot of better rules systems about), rules changes that make models i actually really like the look of are always welcome in my book. This is not to say i dont like the older chaos knights models but just fielding a army of them is abit boring on the eyes it does seem wierd that elves can walk faster than heavy cavalry however, im just hoping we are missing some vital rumours on this one, im also not as convinced we will see all that many dragon ogres being used until the plastic ones come out, i have seen several conversion attempts for them and they usually look awful.
The step up rule in conjuction with the less armour save mods will really help WoC, i have a feeling armour mods will be based on weapons rather than the users strength, also charges being resolved in I order is really going to help warriors, i mean think of those 3 combined, in most cases they will be striking first and getting a damn good save if using a shield, i think halberds will be a great option (i wonder if they will make them better against cavalry..). I dont think it will encourage core infantry in all armies like David's friend said, i do see it being very good on certain units, again however this is going to depend on what changes they make to weapons.
How the character cap turns out depends on what the new magic system is like. I don't like the prospect of having to spend 135 points out of 500 on a scroll caddy.
I *think* that the combat by initiative order rumor refers to the way multiple separate combats are handled, instead of the player whose turn it is picking the order. It'll only affect overruns/pursues into other combats and such, assuming they don't change those rules.
Never forget that your opponent has the same limitation (which wasn't the case before). Chances are your opponent will also have difficulty fielding both a wizard and hero at 500. I have also read that battles will now be in the range of 3000 pts which makes the 25% limit a reasonable 750.
Anyway I think WoC have an edge compare to other armies due to the fact that our sorcerer and hero have excellent combat stats. Like any version change it will make some unit less powerful (maybe obsolete) but it will also make other unit much more powerful. If you had an army with 50%+ characters and spamming of the best units (clearly special/rare choices), you maybe in for some serious list re-writing. People with balanced list (lots of core, large selection of units) won't probably have a lot of things to change (removing points in characters).
Well scroll caddies wont even be that effective anyways as dispel scrolls are rumoured to just as + 2D6, but with the random amount of dice poll you could easily have your magic destroyed by rolling a double 1 and the other guy a double 6
Its actually combats that are resolved in I order, not the order that resolves combat order, that actually wouldnt work because if you have a army, the bulk of your troops will have the same I value, if you look as i have pointed pointed out to me alot of these rules have just been taken from other GW gaming systems, this might just be to lessen the effect of HE ASF rule.
I also have to garee with what you are saying about balanced lists having a easier time adapting, i think it really depends if rare is 25% or 15%, if its 25% i dont have to change a thing, i might well drop the sorcerer and replace with a exalted champion, if its 15% well i will just drop my chaos spawn.
With the characters im looking at a lvl 4 and a BSB or a lvl 2
Rares i may have to drop the mark of my giant.
Special does not change
So most of my extra core will core from what i spend less on characters.
If i go BSB or lvl 2 will depend on the magic rules and how the metagame. While magic will be less i still think most people will go magic heavy characters.