Welcome to Librarium Online!
Join our community of 80,000+ members and take part in the number one resource for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K discussion!
Registering gives you full access to take part in discussions, upload pictures, contact other members and search everything!
Hey guys, dusted off my old WoC models and picked up WHFB again recently after 8 years. Reading a lot here lately, gave me quite some help putting together lists.
I have a question; I never see the Manticore mount get mentioned in lists or whatsoever. It's not near as good as a dragon ofcourse, but doesn't use up a hero slot and i like the GW-model.
Did you ever use it? And is it effective? I think that in combination with a Tzeentch Lord with Kollar of Khorne it might have at least a somewhat decent save.
I thought it did take a hero slot, that's what I am getting on the army builder. I think about this a lot too since I am building a WoC army. Toughness 5, killing blow, flying, and terror make it pretty sexy and not as costly as a dragon.... you can make a reasonably priced lord with it (for chaos anyway). Also the uncontrollable and "raaargh" monster rule fit really well with chaos fluff. Also diabolic splendor would mean all the terror tests take a -1.
Here's what I didn't like:
Manticore model conversion looks difficult, the DE on manticore just sits on his head, part of the guys legs are actually manticore fur. A little too intensive for me at the moment.
Hero or Lord on Juggernaut is a cheaper melee beast, not a large target, just seems like more value for a chaos champ challenging everyone on the map.
The cost of a Lord on Manticore is almost as much as Archaon after adding everything...doesn't leave much for the rest of your army. It would make a sexy centerpiece though and different for sure.
The main draw back is that for 160pts less than a dragon you actually get a lot less. Lower WS, S, T, A and LD. Initiative is the only thing the manitcore is better in. But when the Manticore has killing blow, the dragon gets a 3+ save, which is good as he too is a large target, and 2 breath weapons. Plus the Uncontrollable is a huge draw back. Take an LD test every turn and if you fail your frenzied, not likely as a Lord has a LD 9, but if you do have frenzy you are on a mount with a 20 inch charge aka a lot of people with then try to bait him somewhere and then swamp the lord with a ton of units/warmachines/magic. For like 500-600pts you don't want to risk it. Put a Lord on a Dragon or Daemonic Mount/steed. Heros work better on the frenzied juggie because they are not as expensive.
Repainting Orks not sure how many points yet
Warriors of Chaos shelved until further notice
If you're min/maxing, the manticore doesn't seem to be a good idea. If you're the type of person who likes to win games by massacres, again I wouldn't recommend it; there's lots better choices out there. I personally don't like flying Terror-causing rank breakers, but the manticore, abyssal terror, griffons, and hippogriffs in the game are ok by me in certain army builds. They don't have armour, are only four wounds, don't have ranged attacks, and cease to be rank-breakers if the rider dies. All of these mounts can be a challenge to use against armies with decent shooting or magic, although they are admittedly very strong against ITP armies.
The manticore is especially scary due to it's killing blow rule. When I use one the Lord on top usually carries the axe of khorne and can definitely put the hurt on enemy characters. Between the lord and manticore I once scored three killing blows on a regen-banner-carrying Wight King and an additional 2 unsaved wounds, which when combined with my flank bonus netted me 12 CR, numbers any dragon-rider would be hard pressed to put up. Additionally, the Uncontrollable rule is nothing but a blessing, as any turn you didn't want to charge something he would be hiding from enemy fire anyways. I suppose the mandatory overrun and inability to flee on your opponent's following turn can cause problems, but a frenzied manticore and rider should have enough combat ability to deal with anything short of combo charges.
Well here's my question, if you were dead set on a manticore how would you build him?
Mine carries a shield, Crimson Armour, Necrotic Phylactery, and Axe of Khorne. Marks and Daemonic Gifts to taste. With the Crimson Armour you don't have to fear waywatchers or war machine taking out your lord (though warmachines probably won't do the manticore much good, so watch your screening) and that combined with the Necrotic Phylactery means that grave guard and assassins become a non-issue. He's not invincible, but the combination of T5, good armour, and flying movement gives you all the tools you need to keep him alive.
The Hellfire Sword is also a favorite, giving him enough combat res to take on a ranked unit to the front or really screw up the Ogres' day. I seem to whiff out more often with the Hellfire Sword's Str 5 attacks though, so I prefer the Axe.
In my opinion, the two biggest problems are that they are very vulnerable to shooting and only a lord level can take one as a mount. If a hero could take one (which I believe is the case for Dark Elves) I'd be all over it. If I'm taking a flying mount for my lord level character, its a dragon. :-)
Everyone has been mentioning taking a lord on top of a Mantiicore, but why not a Sorc. Lord instead? I've been fiddling with the idea of putting my unmarked Sorc. Lord on a manticore for several reasons:
1. Because I use lore of heavens, and being on a large target will allow forked lightning and thunderbolt to be cast on virtually any enemy unit on the table at any time.
2. if I do end up getting celestial shield, then ill always be able to cast it on the unit that needs it the most.
3. having killing blow on my mount will allow me to feel more confident when challenging another character with my sorc. lord, not to mention I can more easily pick and choose my combats on a flying mount (I usually run my sorc. lord either unmounted in a unit of warriors, or mounted on a steed)
Let me know if you end up running a manticore and how it turns out. and by the way, modelling a chaos character on a Manticore is less daunting then people are making it out to be. making fur out of greenstuff is easy, the hard part would be to model the legs of the rider to fit snuggly on the back of the Manticore.
I think I will have to side with the group that believes that if you are going to go big, GO BIG. Manticore would be cool for a themed army, but if you want a lord that has a huge number of points sunk into them, I think the Dragon is the way to go.
5000 pts of WoC, 5000 pts of Orcs and now 3000 pts of Ogres...What was I thinking ????
The points difference between a manticore and a chaos dragon is one fully-equipped, ranked, and marked marauder unit or two Fast-Cav units. As for having a significant impact on your game, I'll go with the extra units over unneeded survivability. Also, to those worried about ranged attacks, if your opponent is pumping out enough magic and missiles to take out your 200 point flyer and ignoring most of the rest of your army you shouldn't be concerned, you should be grateful.