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Well, title says it all really. got a game against DE's coming up, using ETC restrictions and I'm debating wheter to go combat or magic heavy. Combat heavy and I'll break those pansy elves' heads in......if I can get into combat before being blasted apart with dark magic or lore of metal. If I go magic heavy, will I actually be able to a) Get any of my own spells of and b) Dispel the worst of his?
In my experience I've found combat works well against them. The trouble is that a good Dark Elf player will know how to play to his strengths whilst minimizing yours, the only thing you can do is to take enough dispell scrolls to counter the worst of the magic.
How many points is the game?
Take a level 4 sorcerer with a chaos runeblade and a scroll caddy. Give them whatever marks you want and use them to support the rest of your army who will be doing the smacking. If you have the points I recomend an exalted hero of Khorne on a juggernaut to dish out the pain. I have one as my battle standard bearer in larger games.
Spell priority is the key to managing your dispell scrolls/dice. Most of your army is well armoured so think about the consequence of the spell they are casting before you decide to dispell it. A good example is as you said spells like Rule of Burning Iron and Transmutation of Lead on a chaos warriors are nasty so you want to save your efforts for spells like that as well as other spells that ignore armour saves. Spells like Bladewind and Distillation of Molten Silver you can ignore largely as your armour can handle it.
Last edited by Jared van Kell; May 16th, 2010 at 17:35.
Make the Lvl 4 tzeentch and then you can give him a Disc so he can fly around and be where you need him. Then he gets a ward save and +1 casting. For extra protection give him the eye of Tzeentch(?) which gives him a 3+ war out of combat and combined with the tzeentch ward save makes it a 2+
Repainting Orks not sure how many points yet
Warriors of Chaos shelved until further notice
Golden eye gives him a 4+ against ranged, so with MoT, it goes down to 3+. Still a good idea though.
You have two basic things to worry about.
Well, three. But the third isn't that bad.
1. Ring of Hotek.
He won't tell you where it is, he will just tell you its activated when you roll doubles on any cast. It protects any units within 12", but also messes with his sorcerors within 12". If he's going magic, and he's stupid, it will be obvious where the ring is. If he's going magic and he's not stupid, it will become obvious by about turn 3. If he's not going magic heavy, you will probably never find out who has it until you kill them. He might be sneaky and put it on his mage, you will know because he won't try to cast heavy spells. That's a bit of a mind-bender though.
To minimise damage - TAKE INFERNAL PUPPET!!!!!!!!!!!!
it has saved my ass so many times against dark elves, because it lets you modify your own miscasts, and if you're lucky you might gib his sorceress(es). Otherwise, you just have to wait and see till you miscast. You will only find out about the ring after your first cast. Use your lord to take out his dark riders and shades in the first turn, they will probably be out of range. If you need to, sacrifice a level 2 sorc with a big spell to find out if a unit is covered by the ring of hotek. You will roll doubles on any more than 2 dice. You will probably roll doubles on 2. You must consider it this way or the ring of hotek will BITCH YOU UP.
Dreadlord on a manticore. Will kill your level 4 sorceror on a disc. I have tried to fix this. I have tried chaos spawn guarding my sorc. I have tried using a giant with ASF to block my general, hoping for a failed 'uncontrollable' test. He charged my giant, which FAILED because manticores have I5 and your biggest damage is only good on a failed I test by the enemy. INITIATIVE 5 MANTICORES WTF? IT didn't even matter, because - as i was screening my lord with the giant - my lord began a turn within 6" of a manticore (terror) and failed his POXY ld 8.
Moral of the story : Take a level 4 sorcer lord of tzeenth with Rod of Torment, Golden Eye, Enchanted Shield, Spell Familiar (or bronze armor of zharakk for immune to killing blow - manticores are op!) and PRAY TO GOD THAT YOU CAN KILL THE MANTICORE IN ONE ROUND OF SHOOTING/MAGIC!
The lord will probably have pendant of khaeleth, which means a 2+ ward save on anything over S5. He will probably have a 2+ save against shooting. He may have regen, and will be at least S6 (or something better, like ignore armor). If you don't kill the manticore before it charges you, your lord will die. it is as simple as that. The best you can hope for in such a situation is that he will pursue off the board (unlikely as lord is ld10) and you can do enough damage to the rest of his army in the 2 turns you don't have to worry about him to make up for losing your general in the 2nd turn. This is of course assuming that his manticore hasn't fearbombed your drogers, any other sorcs you have, and all your non-itp marauders.
A unit of nurgle nights with banner of rage will take out the hydra. An exalted will probably take out the hydra. Dragon ogres will take out the hydra. A chariot of khorne will probably take down a couple of wounds, if you've softened it up with a flickering fire or two beforehand it poses no threat at all.
It's only 175 points. It's not as scary as it seems, though it's regen save can be a game-changer.
4. Lastly. If he's taking repeater bolt throwers, take a unit of knights with MoT and blasted standard, put them slightly off centre so it looks like you have thought about putting them behind cover but forgotten. Use it to soak up his S6 D6 wounds no armor save shots. He will be grinding his teeth by turn two, as he may miss in T1 and not find out about the ward save till your entire army is on him.
Remember: blasted standard needs to save 1 knight to pay for itself. It will save at least 1 knight against dark elves. Therefore it is worth taking.
I hope this helps. It's an uphill battle against dark elves. They look all squishy and lame, cold one knights only have 1 attack each, then they charge you or you charge them and you've lost half your army before you even know about it.
ONE MORE THING
if you have a chariot, PUT IT BEHIND STUFF until he reveals his assassin. Also, when his shades are within 20" of your chariot, save your dispel dice for the Power:5 bound spell steed of shadows that his assassin will have. Manbane + rending stars = s7 = dead chariot, and probably hero. Bear in mind here that you cannot charge a unit when the charge takes you within 2" of another enemy unit. That saved my sorceror last game.
I'm not too sure if it's true though.
The scariest two spells he can have are Lore of Gold and Spirit of the Forge, both from the lore of metal. If you really want to mess with him, especially for future games, take Third Eye of Tzeentch on your sorceror, and chuck some of his spells back at him.
If he is going magic heavy, your absolute top priority in every magic phase is Pandaemonium. If your lord doesn't get it, you've probably lost the game. This is why I often take spell familiar, because even a 1 in 3 chance of not getting it is too high. Spell fam boosts it to a 1 in 6 chance of not getting it. Always make sure you have no less than 3 dice at the end of a magic phase to cast Pandaemonium with him. One turn without it up could cost you half your army if he manages to get a couple of black horrors up. My first game against my DE friend he took out 4/5 knights in his first magic phase with his first spell on IF. FUN!
I'm kinda on a roll so I'll keep going for a bit
My friend is a DE player and we've been playing a lot over the past couple of months lol
1. Flickering Fire. Kill the hydra, manticore, dark riders, shades assassin, whathaveyou. Treat Rod of Torment as flickering fire. Treat BCR as flickering fire with killing blow (as no armor save, generally wounds on 6). Furthermore, with MoT this casts on a 3+. This means that for 1 power dice per turn your sorcerer can do up to:
7 S7 hits.
12 S3 hits.
12 S1 hits no armor save.
2. Baleful transmog. Have not really found a use v. dark elves as they all have amazing leadership. Perhaps on hydra if you can take out beastmasters with buboes? I don't really know. It ignores armor saves though, so you might get lucky and knock off a cold one knight or two.
3. Pandaemonium. Nuff said. Ld 10 general, ld 9 chars, ld 8 troops. Pandaemonium is epic, even without the miscast stuff.
4. Treason. Amazing v executioners, good against black guard (extra good because they have to re-roll their misses! LOLOLOLOLOL), great against shades with great weapons. Not worth the dice against any other units, but if cast on those he will probably scroll it. Can very feasibly kil 75% of a unit, especially black guard (LOL AGAIN!)
5. Call of Glory. Meh. By the time your rank and file infantry have got into combat, you'll either be winning or your sorceror will be dead. Also, stops you casting pandaemonium (baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaad).
6. Infernal Gateway. 'nuff said really. If he has ring of hotek you won't be able to cast it on any of his juicy units - unless you go for broke and hope for a 12 on miscast - cast with IF and you forget it. If it takes out one unit it's been worth it, but then you'l probably fluff the rolls and get like 2 S2 attacks (as i always seem to do). Even more insulting, 3 S2 attacks. eugh.
1. Buboes. Epic. Use it on his assassin before unleashing your lords epic shooty magic goodness. He will very probably try to dispel it. Take out sorceresses in units. Note: he CAN put ring of hotek on a unit champion - i think black guard, cold ones, executioners but i'm not sure. If he does this, and you can figure out which one it is, and you can cast buboes on him when he has ran out of dispel dice you will LOL till the end of the battle. it is absolutely hilarious.
2. Regen. Amazing too. Turns a 6 wide unit of chaos warriors with halberds into a hydra with better WS, initiative and more attacks, but 1 less toughness (and obviously decreases in efficacy with wounds, as the hydra doesn't reallly - its breath weapon is a bit pants anyway, specially with your armor saves and big unit bases (i don't use marauders much). Remember its partials on a 4+ (unlike skaven, which are OUCH).
3. squall. Great. Same principle as BCR. You can cast it before targeting so it's not affected by ring of hotek. Good placement can take out eg. 3 knights, 3 black guard in a turn. 3d6 s1 hits no save on every unit touched by the large blast marker. Be good at guessing range and rolling scatter.
4. quagmire. Haven't tried it.
5. Curse of the Leper. EPIC win if you can get it off. Combine with Rod of torment, BCR, blasphemous amulet, the plague banner, whatever. will MINCE his now t2 units (in 1 turn) or t1 units (in 2 turns). Lol at 2d6 hits wounding on 4+ with no armor save for free in your shooting phase with BCR. Lol at your 2d6 hits now wounding on 2+ on your rod of torment. Largely doesn't affect the rest of your army, as you are wounding on 2s anyway most of the time. Bumps his units to wounding on mostly 5s in 1 turn, with a lot wounding on 6s in 1 turn.
6. Rot. If your sorceror is close enough to use this, you've won anyway. He's nurgle so he can't fly. If you've over-extended him he will die in 1 shooting phase.
Last piece of advice: if you are going to take a lvl 2 nurgle sorceror, put him on a charito with enchanted shield. That's a 0+ armor save for him, and a 3+ on the chariot which will survive with its t5 and 4 wounds anyway (unless you let it get munched by an assassin). This will also allow you to throw in up to 7 S5 auto hits, 2 S5 WS5 hits, and 4 S4 WS4 hits where you need it without using up a special slot. Also, he can cast LOL ALL (but quagmire...) of nurgle's spells while he is in combat, moves 7" per turn and charges 14". Charge him into ASF black guard, take out the champion with buboes in the magic phase so you don't have to challenge, and LOL as your impact hits stop him getting any attacks back.
Hope it all helps. Do tell us how it went.
Last edited by shpongled; May 17th, 2010 at 17:44.
scratch that... can't cast if you charge.... oh well. Contining combat anyway. I didn't realise you could cast all but magic missiles in combat until after our last game so I haven't actually done that yet....