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I figured I would share my experience over the weekend for everyone. I did not have a very strong list, drew a terrible deployment, was terribly outdeployed and had the initiative siezed from me. To top it off I made about a half dozen terrible decisions after that and lost horribly. I figured I would share a few of the things that surprised me in the game.
1) Repeater crossbows - They HURT!!! 2 units of 20 each shot into a formation of 12 Warriors, shields, MoT. They killed every one of them to a man in one volley. OUCH!
2) DE magic - Turn one he cast something from the DE magic lore that did a number of hits equal to the number of models in my unit. I had 35 Marauders with shields/MoT and that killed 10 of them. He then got off Fire cage, I failed my LD test (twice) and ran, causing the fire cage to burn off another 15 of them. The 10 that were left ran off the board.
3) Cold ones - 8 cold ones w/master on a cold one and a chariot hit a unit of 10 Chaos Knights with an exalted on a demonic mount. He killed 7 knights. I ran away.
Yeah, I have had bad luck against them as well. A unit of 29 crossbows with a sorc equipped with guiding eye(?) that lets you reroll all misses once per game is just nasty. Their magic is extremely potent with the ability to generate additional dice and the sacrificial dagger. He was dropping the shadow spells that reduce toughness by d3 and the str by d3 along with other nasty debuffs which I really had no choice to stop some of the time. Cauldron of blood is really brutal dropping KB or whatever on hydra/witch elves/blackguard too.
Yeah, Guiding Eye is what got me. I never expected a pair of repeater crossbow units to hit that hard. 12 dead warriors with a 3+6++ save.
Last edited by Bill Garrett; July 14th, 2010 at 21:24.
Ok. So what to we learn from this?
Quicker units, bigger units or stronger units?
Use our own hellcannon?
How do we meta-game dark elves, and how do we beat them with a balanced list?
"The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"
I also lost to an O&G player. After letting those losses sink in what I took away was this:
1) take pups - with half of the game being won on deployment any advantage helps. 30 points to help win the deployment phase is soooo worth it
2) more warriors - 12 in a block isn't enough in a balanced list at 2K+
3) 2 sorcs - with one sorc in my list I had to over-dice everything. If I could get a spell off on a 10 I threw 3-4 dice on a level four to make absolutely sure I got it off. Wasting dice on a failed cast hurts, so if you are taking a sorc Lord always take a backup caster
4) never underestimate cold ones - if they get the charge in, it hurts BAD. Manuevre however you must to get the charge on them.
5) Marauders - I had a 35 block with flails and a 35 block with shields. Neither worked as intended. If I go big on marauders again it will be Khorn with GW in a horde. They are also the only melee unit we have that point for point wins against HE swordmasters (edit: I just math-hammered again... trolls do beat HE swordmasters point for point, I forgot stomp attacks last time I ran it)
6) Knight's+buildings is bad - If an enemy puts a hard unit in a building, just go around it. Clearing buildings is work for warriors and chosen.
Edit: I had to register because Facebook connect was messing with me
Edit 2: I almost forgot... NEVER underestimate a block of Night Goblins ans always ask what characters they are running. a 5*7 block of marauders with shields/MoT hitting a 7*7 block of night goblins with nets and 3 big bosses with GWs gets routed first round of combat. Ouchies.
Last edited by Mrbill; July 15th, 2010 at 00:06.
Some very bad rolling on my part (failed 2 separate rerollable 8 panic checks) and godly rolls on my opponents part (made 85% ward saves on pheonix guard), meant I got tabled without killing a unit.
What I took away from it was, 18 warriors is not enough. Shooting hurts, armor piercing banner makes basic shooting hurt us badly. I also learned magic is most likely not worth it. Its way to dangerous, we had 4 wizards between us and every one of them miscasted at least once, with my lv4 miscasting and blowing up turn 1.
Take bigger blocks of warriors, forget m.horsemen and hellcannons should definitely be taken.
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Yeah, I agree a lot with your experiences pinkus. I think as far as magic that we should be sticking with the tzeentch lord just simply for magic protection and better chances to devastate our opponents with str 10 templates.
To be honest theres a spell in one of the lores that ignore any shots of strength 4 or less within 12" of the wizard thats's what I use anyways, but again I do have a Dark Elf list and it's difficult to beat them in magic to say the least
I run my 23 warriors(5x5) of Tzeentch with my BSB and Tzeentch sorceror & the Blasted Standard to give a +4 armor save +4 ward save vs. shooting. I also try to get my marauder horsemen/ chaos warhounds across the board as quickly as possible, and with Vanguard that should be by turn 2.
I don't have much to save for in defense of magic accept to hope you get pandemonium and make the DE casters miscast into oblivion....
5000 pts of WoC, 5000 pts of Orcs and now 3000 pts of Ogres...What was I thinking ????
1. Warp lightning cannons - hurt like a mo-fo. Of course He has to be accurate and roll high for strength. But I took a direct strength 10 hit on my Knights TWICE killing 3/5 out right! Hurt like hell and left my flank yawning open. My Lord was in the unit to keep them there but still, HOPE for low strength rolls! Advice is to really consider positioning if you see these placed onto the table, expose yourself to one if it means both can't touch you.
2. Slaves - Massive pain in the backside. I held up a 9 ranked unit of slaves with just 10 warhounds, but due to the +1 ld they get from each rank they could well hold up an expensive warrior unit if your not careful and wary of flanks. Fortunately my hounds took the wounds leaving warriors to deal with the hvy stuff.
3. Stormvermin - Didn't impress me much really. Hit them with an Khornate Exhalted and warrior unit 6 x 3 and ploughed through them. Frenzy + Add Hnd Wep leaving 4 attacks per model is nasty!
4. Characters - After loosing 13/19 warriors to a "power of the 13 spell" or something similarly named in one magic phase I was silently weeping only having one khornate rank left to eat into a clan rat unit. I was thinking ah no worries clan rats are no problems. Then comes the hidden assassin, and a grey seer both with higher I than my warriors the Assassin hurt and with my Exalted overrunning and out of range to swap into the unit I had little to deal with him!!
Overall I didn't have any major problems with them as they don't offer masses of shooting aside from the lightning cannons/ and combat we are made for. One thing I would say is don't under estimate a unit for face value all sorts of things can pop up with those pesky skaven. Not to mention some of their horrible spells, that as a Khorne player I had little to deal with.