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In this thread you write what kind of army you brought, what your opponent was fielding, what happened and what you learned.
It's not a thread about Battle Reports, just keep it simple and tell what you thought was important, what worked and what didnt work.
try to give a good context.
Check the "VS Dark Elves" thread for some great examples. http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ark-elves.html (Vs Dark Elves)
Also, please write your army list in the army list section and put a link to it in your post here, so we doesnt take up all that much space and can have a relaxed reading.
This way we can learn what builds work against what armies, and when a gaming climate eventually begin to shape up we know what is being used and how we deal with it.
Last edited by Mr_Wayne; July 15th, 2010 at 00:56.
"The more choices you force the opponent to make, the better the chance for you to capitalize on his mistakes"
Pups!! If you find a unit of night goblins outside range of their BSB, use a pair of pups squads to wreck their day. One unit draws the fanatics out, then the second moves to try and cover as many fanatics as he can. Your pups die, but the fanatics are gone and the night goblins have to take a panic test over it now!
Fought against 50 man unit of HE seaguard with a BSB, lv2 and Lv4 all in that unit and they had the armor piercing banner. With curse of arrow attraction, 35 shots a turn and then 5 ranks of elfs attacking in close combat and rerolling to hit, meant that unit was untouchable by anything I brought. They also had MR3 and he always had his lv2 casting shield of saphery, so magic never hurt the unit, even though I gatewayed it 3 times.
18 warriors were still too slow, he moved up to shoot me and then kept stepping back and with the help of some bolt throwers, he killed all 18 guys by turn 3 and that was with the bolt throwers not shooting the first 2 turns.
Then I slammed 6 khorne GW ogres into that unit and he had 29 attacks that ALL hit. He kill 9 ogres, and he again made 85% of his 5+ wards, so I couldn't even kill his mages.
Turn 1 my lv4 blew himself up. Yeah I rolled really bad, dead lv4 turn 1. He vauls unmaked my rage banner and the killed my dogs in the shooting phase which panicked those knights. Only thing that I noticed as being good, was that my lv1 rolled gateway for his spell, so I was still able to drop gateways left and right. Wish I'd have gotten pandemonium instead though.
Things I learned:
Kill things in combat like Warriors of Chaos should do. Magic works, but its so deadly to the caster now, its not worth putting any significant points into it. Bring a sorcerer or two just so you have something to do that phase, but don't waste Lord points on it. Also, think BIG when thinking warriors. Shooting can be so abundantly taken now its ridiculous. We only need 12 guys get across the board, any less and you won't have what you need in combat. Its very easy to pick off 6 models. I'm going to try my unit as 24 strong next turn. I also learned heroes on foot are worth it. They stay cheap, but can kill things. With the new items its easier to keep them alive. Even if you don't take a magic weapon, you're str5 and that gives you a parry bonus.
Other things that are the same as 7th edition. Warshrines are always worth it. They might show up late to a fight, but they can kill things easily just by corning a unit. On top of that EotGs is huge and can change the game. I threw 5 knights into a pheonix guard unit and got them +1 toughness, guess what, 5 rounds of combat and I lost 2 knights and that was from his lord who had killing blow. And a roll of 8 isn't bad now against a lot of armies. Tzeentch guys get a 3+ ward against magic with that roll. Uhh.. yes please. Fear and terror suck, but every other option kicks ass.
Other things confirmed is chaos knights still love prolonged combats. I'd have killed his pheonix guard easily no questions asked if he didn't make 85% of his ward saves. He had 7 guys left, I killed 12, I wounded him easily 4x that amount over 5 rounds. No one should make that many 4+ wards.
More new things learned. ASF weapon is godly on an exalted. He's str 5 and just beats things up.
I also learned that ogres are still only WS3 and still die to everything and anything. 6 man units are expensive, easy to kill with any type of shooting and adding BSB's the unit only means you can pick out the BSB with no look out sir roll.
I'm going back to 4 DrOgres with GWs. They're faster and have more wounds and WS4 is godly compared to WS3.
You ran naked Chaos Ogres I assume? This isn't derogatory, I'm just curious as to what equipment they had. I would expect T4, Sv4+, W3 to do a good job at staying around. I'm planning to run mine with Chaos Armor and Great Weapons. I can imagine that I2 would hurt us more than anything else.
Played a game against Lizardmen tonight, rolled up the Break-Points mission. Played at 2250 so we each had a break point of 3.
30 Marauders w/ hw&s, MoT, FC
15 Warriors w/ hw&s, MoT, FC | 15 Warriors w/ hw&s, MoT, FC
3 Chaos Ogres (naked, no upgrades)
Exalted w/ GW, ASF helm, Dawnstone | Exalted BSB w/ -1 LD banner | Exalted w/ Glaive, Blasphemous Amulet
Lvl4 Sorc Lord
2x Hell Cannons
Well, the game went well. He dropped the Comet right in front of my lines on the first turn, and I shuffled away so that only my Marauders were hit. Lost the back rank right there, no joke. He then kept dropping comet between my Cannons every time it came down, hoping to wipe them out. Cannons obliterated his TemplGuard- they really are nasty now. He wanted to charge them at one point until he saw their profile and realized that they'd have loved that more than his Kroxigors ever would.
Magic went alright, I didn't really get any casts off, and he killed my caster by turning him into gold (lore of metal, 6th spell). My 30 marauders turned out to be beasts. Even after being whittled down to half their number, they smashed through the remnants of a Saurus regiment that was hit with cannon scatter, and then blasted into a very weakened regiment of 3 Templeguard and the Slaan. Needless to say, the Slaan ate it, along with his regiment, and that got me to the break point in the game.
My warriors also did quite well. I turned one into an Exalted with Call to Glory, so they had the Glaive and an additional Exalted. They took down a Stegadon that walked right through my Chaos Ogres (they did nothing) and then went on to smash apart a Skink regiment escorted by 3 Kroxigors. Having 10 kills on your combat resolution is awesome.
What did I learn:
Find you objectives and go for it. I knew that if I spread my cannon fire out, it would be far less effective. With a banner, general and BSB in his Guard regiment, I only had to wipe that off the table at all costs, without losing my own banners. Cannons targeted that, while my Marauders led the vanguard, knocking a clear path that the Warriors could have exploited if need be.
Terrain matters: a lot of it is quite nasty, so making sure to set up a bottleneck in the midfield is awesome- it keep the enemy off your flank and forces him into toe to toe fights with your highly skilled killing machines. Only one of my units strayed out of this kill ally, the warriors who diverted to protect the cannons.
Pray to the BirdMan: Mark of Tzeentch is the way to go with warriors. We have the strength, weaponskill, and attacks to do just fine in combat. There's no reason not to run an exalted in the regiment either, as you won't have many Warrior regiments in the army. Tzeentch with a shield means that you have a 3+ armor save, and a 5+ wardsave, and that wardsave is game breaking. 6+ against incoming shooting, artillery, spells, and anything else that might ruin your day, and then a 5+ in combat against the big scary great weapons or impact hits. Keeping warriors alive for prolonged battles is what it's all about, as we don't have many of them. After a round or two though, most enemy units are simply not there anymore, unless they break before that.
For 8th edition in general: understand that the game is absolutely brutal. Expect to be pulling off plenty of models in each magic phase, and roll several armor saves in each combat. Things look bleak for warriors in the early turns, as we struggle to close the gap in spite of strong enemy magic or shooting. However, once our soldiers are rubbing elbows with enemy... girly-men... we're making up for those losses ten fold. It's all about keeping your chin up, no matter how hard they try to bash on it. This game was won in the bottom of turn 4. Both armies had suffered ~50% casualties, but winning was all that mattered.
I had three games last Saturday. The list I used
Exalted+11 Chosen (halberds)
3 units of 12 Warriors.
2 units of 5 Forsaken. (yes, I know)
2 Spawn & Scyla
Level 4 Shadow Wizard.
1st Game was against Bretonians, the Second was against goblins and the third against Beastmen. Things I learn't were:
- Don't be afraid of being charged. Initiative rules they day and I was killing 4 or 5 Knights before they even got to fight. With their depleted attacks they couldn't rack up the combat resolution and fled.
- Who cares about Hordes. My units of 12 Warriors easily hacked their way through units of 50. I faced untis of 50 Goblins with nets, 50 peseants with Halberds and a unit a 56 Gors. Most of these lasted 2 rounds of combat before they had so few models they had no steadfast rule or simply wern't there anymore.
- Monsters. Becareful with your Monsters. They're not that tough and striking last is something that will seriouosly seriously hurt you. Minotaurs charged my Warriors and I was killing 3 Minotaurs before they even got to strike. Striking in Initative has really hurt them.
- Shadow Magic. I had doubts on this Lore as it isn't really hurty in the slightest. However after having 2 games with my Level 4 I found that it is Sick. Really really sick. Making enemy units Ws 1 or 2 reduces the amount of hits against you no end. Also, making them str 1 or 2 means your warriors just laugh at the attacks that do hit and continue the slaughter.
Also, Making Chaos warriors str 8 or 9 with the #6 spell is just wrong.
-Warshrines are a godsend. Making Warriors str 5 or have +1 Attacks makes them unstoppable. I had +1 str on my 2 hand weapon warriors Vs the Beastmen and in one round they killed 17 Gors. They hacked their way through a unit of 56 Gors (with Lord) and a Giant (who charged in on the 2nd round.) At the end of the 4th round of combat there was only the Lord, who ran away. The same unit also got +1 str against the Bretonians and they killed 21 Peseants in one round. So much for Steadfast.
-Also, an important note. If you charge an enemy unit that is fleeing. They Die. Simply die. They do not get to flee again as in 7th. If your charge range gets your unit into combat you remove the enemy unit. I had 1 forsaken kill 78 goblins this way (including Skarsnik and a Lvl 4 Shaman)
Played 2 games with the new edition:
Game1 1000 pts vs Wood Elves:
Chaos Lord: MoT, shield, Sword of Might
Sorcerer: lvl1, spell familiar
14 Chaos Warriors: hw & shield, MoS, full command
25 Marauders: la, hw & shield, MoS, full command
25 Marauders: gw, MoS, full command
Battle was the Skull Pass (deployment on short table edges)
- My first mistake was trying crazy charge, like trying to roll 10. Instead try marching right in front of your opponent face. Especially if you think you're opponent will try to flee.
- Your opponent can easily deploy deep with his shooting unit in this mission. Possibly getting an extra turn of shooting
- Do not underestimate the WE, 8th edition did not nerf skirmisher that much. They can still outmaneuver us easily and they still have good shooting units. As in 7th, don't expect to pull a charge against them unless he wants to.
- I know this has been said before, but magic is now insane. Always take a sorcerer, even if he is a lvl1. My lvl1 was the reason the game finished in a draw. The little guy took Death and managed to kill my opponent noble. Miscast table is very nasty and nearly killed him thought. I still think a lvl4 could have field day with Blood of Tzeentch and Conjoined Humonculus (and throwing max 3-4 dice at a spell).
- You get victory point for destroyed (or fled) unit only. No more partial. So bigger resilient units means point denial. My opponent did not focus his shooting and did not killed any units.
- You get point for flags only if they flee. Considering this last point, I won't probably bother with a magic armor or talisman on my BSB. My next setup will probably be something like: Axe of Khorne and Luckstone. If he dies in combat, so be it, my opponent won't have an extra 100 pts.
Game 2 2000 pts against OK:
Chaos Lord: sh, MoT, Axe of Khorne, Dargan, Talisman of Prot.
Sorcerer: lvl2, puppet, enchanted shield
Hero: BSB, sh, MoT, Steed, crown of command, biting blade, dragonbane gem
2x 14 Chaos Warriors: hw & shield, MoS, full command
25 Marauders: la, hw & shield, MoS, full command
5 knights: MoT, musi, std, Blasted Standard
Battle was with Breakpoint. I had 7 breakpoints the Ogre had 5 (he had 3 big units, 8 Iron Guts, 12 Bulls, 50 gnoblar).
- There is a fine line between a death star unit and a 8th ed unit size. The OK player had all his egg in the same basket and I managed to cast Purple Sun with my lvl2. Although I did a huge mistake on the placement of the Purple Sun, it destroyed 11 ogre bulls (which should have been 6+ Iron Guts instead if we had read the rules correctly). I then proceeded with a hit from my hellcannon on the same unit leaving only 1 wounds on his last ogre. Anyway this costs him the game as I had my Chaos Lord ready to charge his Lord + the last guy which drops him to 2 break point (1 break point for std, 2 for lord). Game ended at turn 2.
- Pay attention on the breakpoint you have. Ideally having 6+ breakpoints at 2000 pts is best. You can have your general in a unit with a std lose and it won't cost you the game.
Other points I would like to point out:
- There is a battle with a watchtower, the fight in the watchtower can't contain more than 10 guys. Given this objective, I would consider 18 chaos warriors the best unit size for 8th ed. And leave frenzy for the knights...
- I often had the Blasted Banner on my knights in 7th. Now with the huge boost to chaos warriors and the deadliness of the shooting phase, I will probably try it on my warriors (makes them the perfect unit to capture the watchtower).
- MoT may give you a 5++ parry save, but you can still panic and fail fear test. I saw another WoC player playing the watchtower scenario and he lost a game only because his warriors inside the tower failed their panic test after taking a shooting casuality. MoS still has it's uses if you believe in Murphy's Law.
- Marauders drop like flies, I would not consider using more than one unit and I would "ideally" boost the unit to 35 whatever their setup, but this would also be the first unit to be reduced if points needed.
Last edited by dapredator66; July 16th, 2010 at 11:27. Reason: Removed some comments.
Played 3 games agaisnt Ogres, Skaven and Empire with my army being:
Lord, Mok, Jug, GW, Helm of Many Eyes
2*15 warriors HW+S, MoT, Command
2*5 knights, MoK
What I learned:
-I5 of warriors and knights is huge, and I mean really huge.
-2 squads of 5 knights are better than 10, 32 attacks against 21
-Warhounds are amazing meat-shields. Sure they die to a stiff breeze, but un-weakened warrior squads will easily make both their and the warhounds guarding them points back.
-Oh and Eye of the Gods is really, really funny.
Last edited by winginson; July 15th, 2010 at 21:40.