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I want to run a chaos lord for a few games, but that means dropping my sorcerer lord.
I was thinking of two lvl 2's, one with the puppet and the other with the tongue.
Is the puppet/tongue still good? I played only a few games in 7th with my WoC and am really learning the army now in 8th.
What other builds for a single or double sorcerer build do you find works?
Tongue is worthless. Its better than 7th edition because wounding a lv2 doesn't give away points. The problem is everyone is scared of not making the casting value and losing their wizard for the rest of the phase. Its also hard to not get the value really. People also place their wizards in their units to make miscasts not so deadly.
It could work, but I've played entire games without ever failing to cast a spell once.
I always liked puppet/talisman on a disc lv2 with roar. Gives him a 5+ ward and he gives you a shooting phase. Haven't tried him in 8th. Then I'd take a nurgle lv2 with power familiar and scroll, but you can't do that anymore.
I'd try a book of secrets shadow wizard, either a sorcerer or exalted. Give him the power familiar as well. Then you can take a fire wizard lv2 with the puppet and something else, or maybe blood of tzeentch/curse icon/obsidian trinket. Makes for a cheap sorcerer with some toys for his magic phase and helps whatever unit he joins stay alive longer.
That works. Can still give your lv2 the fireball bound spell to ensure your ability to use all your dice up.
Pinkus, I don't entirely agree with your assessment of the black tongue. With power die being such a precious resource now, I've seen people tend to conserve as best as possible. It's an expensive item, but it's made even more potent through the much deadlier miscast table. Paired with the puppet you've really got an opportunity to cause a great deal of damage.
Yeah, but I think people over-hyped the deadliness of miscasting. It tends to kill more of the unit than any actual damage to the wizard (specially with the eainess of getting ward saves for wizards now and only a 4% chance of blowing yourself up). In-fact I hope more often than not just to reduce wizard levels. And usually the worst part of a miscast is losing the power dice. But if your lv4 already failed to cast a spell, then you're working with auxiliary wizards at that point anyways.
I'm sure the groupthink is different in different places, but no one around here 1-2 dice with a lv4 for a spell that needs a 10 or 11, unless its the last spell in the phase and again, I reiterate, that losing the powerdice seems to be the worst affect. Unless your opponents a moron and places his wizards in the center of his most expensive units.
Don't get me wrong its nice, but its too expensive and we have too many better items for our heroes to wear. I'm not putting this on a lord or exalted, its a waste and kmy wizards all need arcane items (power familiar, infernal puppet, blood of tzeentch).
In my mind, infernal puppet and power familiar are both better than the tongue. Now if you had an exalted with the BoS and power familiar, then MAYBE I could see the puppet on 1 sorcerer and the tongue on another.
I have to agree with you Pinkus, I've gotten tongue many times and pretty much every game my opponent has made the casting cost. 50pts down the tube!
As far as other items go, I have found channeling staff to be very nice, if i have low-level casters [I roll a red die for the sorcerer with the item, just to be clear].
Sona si Latine loqueris.
A fair argument, and well received. I play against a lot of DE and HE who are always min-maxing their core and fielding a lot of elites. I suspect that would taint my perceptions of the utility of the Tongue. Everytime I use it, there seem to be plenty of expensive units nearby.
I use Puppet and Enchanted Shield on my level 2. Puppet shenanigans is fun (and I tend to miscast more than my opponent does...) and a 2+/6+ save is pretty good.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
I like the puppet/obsidian combo. MR1 in a tzeentch unit is nice.
Yeah, last week our DE player miscasted because of a Ogre item that causes miscasts on double 1,2,3. He then threw the spell into some gnoblars with another item. Killed like 4 gnoblars. Then the sorceress went super nova and kill 10-15 spearelfs. And 2 weeks ago our DoW player over the first 3 magic phases with my puppet turned a lv4 and a lv2 into 2 lv0s.
Our HElf player puts his wizards in seaguard/spear unit. They usually are extremely expendable. Our demon player has heralds with 4+ wards that just shrug off miscasts too. Then we got a crazy beastmen player that brings 1 shaman who has the bound item that blows up arcane items. He marches up the field within range of a few wizards and chucks 3 dice at his bound item just hoping for 2 6s. Wizards tend to die fast that way.
My point being I see it both ways. The tongue could do massive damage in the right situation. The problem is that situation doesn't happen that often and usually a good opponent KNOWS he will miscast on his own, so he'll position his wizards to blunt the damage.