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So I was looking through our almighty army book today, and noticed that the Sorcerer Lord has access to the Lore of Heavens, as well as the Lore of Shadow, Death and Fire. Now, the general consensus seems to be that Shadow is the lower-leg joints of a particular flying insect which collects honey.
However, I was looking through the Lore of Heavens and there are some really neat spells in there, both offensively and defensively. It may not be as damaging as Shadow, but I really want to try it out to see how it meshes with my playstyle.
A couple of things that stand out as being very useful to us:
- Both Iceshard Blizzard and Comet of Casandora are great at disrupting gunlines. Iceshard because it can outright prevent an enemy unit from firing, and Comet because I doubt the enemy is going to keep his units hanging around an area which is liable to explode at any point. Another spell of note is Wind Blast, which if used correctly can prevent an enemy from charging, and mean that you get the charge instead!
So yeah, what are your opinions on this Lore that seems to be stuck in the shadow (I'm very sorry) of it's more umbral cousin?
Seems to me an excellent Lore for games under 1500 points. Lots of nice damage spells mixed with augments, would work awesome with Fire Lore combo.
Sona si Latine loqueris.
Depending on how you interpret the rules, Wind Blast could also be used to force a unit out of the Watchtower.
I'm going to be a pedant and say that the certain insect to which you are referring doesn't collect honey
back on topic however...
I really like lore of heavens, but I think shadow just edges it, especially when combo'd with nurgle for popping units. also, the special effect for shadow has a lot more potential for trickery than that of heavens
add to that that the heavens signature spell is useless against certain armies...
anyway, lets break it down...
Attribute - if you're targetting fliers... awesomesauce. if not.....
0. great vs shooty, not so great vs anything else
1. re-roll 1 in 6 dice (those that roll a 1) in shooting and combat, this is actually quite a nice spell considering the amount of dice that we throw around in combat
2. push unit d3+1", tactical spell, situational, but handy, someone charging you generally isnt a major deal in this edition unless they're ASF+lances/flails,high else GW wielders, devastating charge or impact hits
3. the inverse of the signature spell, potentially combos well with nurgle troops (if you can drop things down to needing 5's to hit)
4. D6 S6 hits - nice damage, but standard spell really just higher S
5. comet - great vs gunlines, most others will move out of the way, random landing turn can be a bad thing, but delay helps final blast. can use tactically to seal off an avenue
6. Chain Lightning - Potentially devastating... potentially the same as spell 4
Attribute - jiggery pokery! as long as you take another character of the same troop type this is worth it (just keep them within 18")
0. Brilliant spell, reduce I of HE's to stop them re-rolling their asf hits, also combos with spells 4 and 5 from shadow and Quagmire from nurgle
1. standard fly move - pretty poor - would almost always swap this for 0
2. reduce S by D3 - brilliant, combos with leper
3. reduce T by D3 - again brilliant, combos with leper, BCR, can help negate irritating T7 elves using lore of life
4. pendulum - interesting spell, would be great on a shadow lord with a carpet (or DP), debuff initiative first
5. pit - again, shadow lord on carpet (or DP), debuff I first, potential for stupid amount of kills, also potential for caster to die
6. mindrazor - S8 knights? S9 chaos lord? S7 marauders? S5 warhounds ffs!!! what's not to like?
so while several of the heavens spells are situational, apart from spell 1 from shadow each of them is superb
Not saying that heavens doesn't have its uses, just that as you have to select your lore when writing your list, I'd always go for shadow first
Did I really write that bees collect honey? God, I must really be not getting enough sleep. Anyway...
The main reason why I thought Heavens would be useful is because our Achilles Heel is a gunline army, since our strength lies in beating face, while they will be trying their hardest to keep out of CC for as long as possible. Other armies which utilize combat aren't as big a deal since we pretty much beat everyone there unless they're as many points as we are or built to sponge damage.
Shadows is awesome, and I have used it and had success, but not as much as I'd hoped. I think it's because everyone uses Shadow, knows how to combat it, and knows which spells to let through and which to stop.
Another point is that with the griffon in IoB, there will be a glut of flying creatures being seen, both as griffons and conversions thereof.
But yeah, that's my counter I suppose, but I will hopefully try it out on Saturday so I'll come back and give my impressions on how it went.
Oddly enough, you won't see that many Griffons, I assure you. The Elves won't touch the thing, because it's just 20pts cheaper than a Dragon. The only other army which can use them is the Empire, and, well... You see what I mean? The thing's not all that friendly to the conversion master, since the elf legs are modelled onto the flanks of the beast (yeah, I don't understand why either). Converting it into an Eagle costs almost as much as just buying an Eagle or other suitable model. The wingspan is also HUGE, and much to large to be used for eagles. But enough railroading this thread.
(oh, and Bees collect pollen, technically)
Heavens is cool, and it does have it's uses. I wouldn't really take it on it's own- the 3rd spell is most useful when the enemy is already swinging on 5-6. Our reroll is nice, being able to reroll 1's for combat. The Wind spell is cool for shoving people through a Flame-Cage. The damage spells are pretty solid, but when you're already looking at using other Augments/Hexes, they quickly cut into your dice totals.
The problem that I've had with taking lores outside of Shadows and Nurgle, is that I'm putting too much strain on my dice pools, and I'm sinking too many points into sorcerers. Just yesterday I ran with 3 Sorcerers, by my 3rd was Festus and he was really just a 185pt unit upgrade for his Regen and Poison. The other was a Tzeentch caster who I really took for Pandaemonium. If you can work out a casting-schedule, then you're ok. But you'll be sidelining sorcerers left and right. For example, I was always checking the Enfeebling/Curse combo. If I was in range, I tried for that. Out of range, and I immediately put aside the "Curse" dice for casting Pandaemonium at the end of the phase. The it was in to whatever useful spells I could squeeze out with my dice before tossing my main spell/combo for the phase.
If you're going to run Heavens and Shadow for the good combos, why not run Shadows and Fire for more damage spells? I like having lores that are extremely specialized. For example, I know that if I take Shadows, I'm getting a support caster. There's nothing in the lore that doesn't help me in a support role. Go with Fire, and you're cranking a lot of quick-cast damage spells. Death will knock down enemy characters with ease. Heavens? I might get damage, might get support, but either way I can't really plan a strategy around that caster until 20seconds before deployment, when I'm rolling spells.