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Warriors of Chaos
Hello all, this is my first time posting here
Me and a few friends are trying to get into warhammer and I am having a few issues in choosing which army to be. It would be great if anyone could answer a few of my questions regarding Warriors of Chaos.
1) Are WoC competitive?
2) Is the WoC Battalion box set any good?
3) Is this a better choice for a beginner than either Skaven or Vampire Counts?
Thanks in advance for all helpful answers
Warriors are a great choice for beginner players. They are very easy to get to grips with, you can be tactical if you want to get more advanced later, but for a beginner they are great to just charge across the table and get stuck in as they can go toe-to-toe against pretty much anything. The Battalion box is a must buy, you will use every model in it. I have close to 3000 points worth of WOC now, and every game I have I still use the entire contents of my battalion box.
As for going Skaven I think they look like a great/fun army to play, but they have alot of special rules which can be confusing for beginner players, plus they require a bit more thought to play style as they can't go one on one against anything in the chaos army.
I'm also thinking of starting up Fantasy again, my group has basically dropped 40k so I need something fun if I want to still play games. My group is using a LOT of horde formations units, VC ghouls, Orks Black orks, just a lot of horde formation. Can WOC handle horde formations well enough with our low number of models.
Just remember with a horde they are basically sacrificing combat resolution to gain more attacks. So that works in our favour as they will need ALOT more models to get their extra ranks...and steadfast. Also against a horde we will generally be striking first and hitting on 3's and probably wounding on 3's so we have the first chance to cause massive damage. I had 15 warriors with 2 hand weapons and mark of khorne charge into a horde of night goblins with spears. I easily sent them packing. They were lucky to kill even one guy. So yeah, we can do fine against hordes, but I wouldn't be stupid about it and for example throw a unit of marauder horsemen straight into the front of them.
Did I read that correctly? they are using black orcs for a horde? don't they have two attacks each? Anything with more then 1 attack is generally wasted in a horde because you are sacrificing the extra attacks since the supporting ranks only get 1 attack. Better to have 2 units for better manuvarability and more attacks. And I think black orcs would be too expensive. A horde of black orcs is fun for template weapons (hellcannon) or any spell that targets the whole unit. Talk about all your eggs in one basket. That guy should be relatively easy to beat.
Last edited by chopstyx; October 3rd, 2010 at 19:47.
I've had a couple of ranks of normal Chaos Warriors rip apart Skaven clanrats (with a Sorcerer Lord just holding a Warlord off for long enough) over a couple of rounds - The volume of attacks and high WS/S is usually enough to grind your opponent down faster than he can do the same to you. The danger comes from what characters you might encounter, which can really spoil your Chaos-Enhanced day.
Having an army and not owning a rulebook is like owning a car with no steering wheel.Originally Posted by amishcellphone
SO to answer the original poster:
Yes WoC are competitive. They are very strong in CC and they have access to some good own rules magic as well as four rule book lores. The casters have chaos armour so are generally tougher than opponents equivalents. You are generally not going to have a shooting phase to play because you only really have the hellcannon and marauder horsemen able to shoot. Because the pieces are so expensive it also makes getting into the army easier - you have to collect fewer models to be able to field an army.
The Battalion box is one of the best. You will use everything in it. In fact, if you buy two you will still not be wasting money.
I have a Vampire Counts army but I have never played Skaven (or against skaven for that matter). My personaly opinion is, if this is your first army then you will find it easier to collect, build and paint WoC than a horde army like the two listed. I personally think WoC is better than Vamps (although Vamps have a certain cool factor that Twilight is rapidly eroding). I just can't offer an opinion about Skaven other than the fact you will be collecting, building and painting a much higher number of medels to field a similar points value army as WoC. If you are getting started I would opt for small.
As for whether WoC can handle large hordes - the simple answer is yes. You also have an option to field a marauder horde if you like. But the Warriors we have as core are quite able to stand up to a horde and send it packing if you get your tactics right. Remember spell casting can even the odds by lowering WS, S, T and the like so that they are going to struggle to lay a hand on you. With both armor saves and ward saves you have good odds of shrugging off anything that does get through.
WoC core is as good as, if not better than, a large number of other army special choices. and our special choices... well ..
Good luck whatever you choose.
Thanks for the help guys. I have never played him personally but I witnessed the game yesterday (will bits and pieces while I waited for the table to be free). I though the same thing about it being expensive, but it seemed to perform very well, and he was playing against VC, so the war machines was not really an issue. Though I believe he lost in the end to the VC. A horde of Ghouls chewed through all his goblins.
As stated, this is why WoC are one of the best armies.
Cheap to collect. $25 for a unit of chaos knights? Are you kidding me?
Beautiful sculpts. Most our models are very nicely done.
Tough on the battlefield. Enemies find it hard to kill us and we find it easy to kill them. Also if you take shooting out of the picture we're very diverse. Lots of unique magic lores, good selection of magic items, we can go slow foot troops, fast cav troops, hard hitting monstrous infantry and we also have big badass monsters. We've got it all except for the common bow. We'd be broken if they gave us archers.
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Have you taken a peek through this (Starting WoC? Post Questions HERE) thread? Lots of good stuff in there about starting up Warriors.
Anyways, the Warriors are definitely a better army to start with than the Vampire Counts. In 7th edition, VC was one of the best armies in the game, but with the alterations to the Fear rule, and magic phase, the Vampires are pretty low on the totem pole now.
Skaven are good, but you'll be doing a LOT of painting, and their standard regiments aren't too hot. They have some cool warmachines, and their specials can really carry the game, but the army itself takes a surprising amount of finesse to use. Most of that finesse also translates into forethought, since 3k of Skaven have no problem clogging up an entire deployment zone. It just takes 10k pts worth of the little guys to actually CARPET a 1x6 area!
Warriors provide you with an army that can work extremely well on a tactical level (we have all the elements of the game except for designated shooting regiments) but can also shrug off silly beginner mistakes. Over-extended your Chaos Warriors? No problem- they can probably hold their own long enough for the rest of your army to catch up, if they even care that they're taking on 2-3 regiments by themselves.
They're very much "The Space Marines of Fantasy", with their ridiculously thick armor and heavy damage output. What they lack is all the excessive hype and over-marketing, so nobody will down you for playing them.
Furthermore, it is almost impossible to make the army "Cheesy". There's nothing broken about them, they're just a very solidly written book (warning: the book itself is not solid- they're falling apart on everyone so get it spiral-bound)
Warriors of Chaos is really one of the best starter armies. Few models, and you can't really go wrong with anything in the book - everything is at least all right, and most things are good choices. They're easy to paint as well, since they're dark and lend themselves well to Washes and such.
Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks