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Got a 2250pts game coming up against the High elves, but not sure how to approach it. We're playing without special characters, so no Teclis at least. My main problem is the swordmasters/white lions. They've got quite high str and they hit first. I'm debating if I should go with a caster lord (my favourite) or a combat lord (1+ as, 3+ws and stubborn). Also, if I go with the caster lord, should it be a tzeentch lord or a level 4 with lore of shadow? I'm mostly for the level 4 with shadow and a level 2 with MoT as support. I'm also guessing a chariot or 2 would be nice, as would a hellcannon (I love my hellcannon, even if the love isn't alway repaid). Anyone got any tips?
Shoot and or magic the crap out of his swordmasters, treason of Tz works well here, as they will hit themselves in the face typically killing 50%.
Potentially look out for some shooting defence, blasted standard and MoT as usual. Repeater Bolt Throwers >_<
With magic defence I take along a feedback scroll, and try to get off pandemonium early.
Stack up on warriors, something that will weather the storm of ASF, but kick out bucket loads of attacks vs Elven T3. I find Khornate with additional hnd wep suffices. Potentialy add shields for shooting defence to get more across the board.
I wrote a battle report of how my first game went against HE here: http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...t-2500pts.html (Elven Issues: WoC Battle Report [2500pts])
As a HE player I'd suggest thinking about a magic heavy 2 Archmages,Mage list with High magic on all of them. All of a sudden his squishy T3 units can be a lot tougher to kill with 5+ Ward saves,also potentially he can hit any big Hordes of Chaos Warriors with 4 rounds of Flames of Phoenix each turn from turn 2.Now when the Swordmasters hit you will not have ranks for steadfast and possibly even lose the subsequent combat. This can also eat up any magical offence you may try to mount,you'll spend at least 6PD dispelling his Flames if cast twice. If those fail you take two more S4 hits before he casts a spell, then he can end it and cast Flames with both AMs again. He can also cast Drain magic and make you need =3/6/9 to casting levels. Seerstaff and silver wand on 2 Archmages will allow him double up on spells and Shield of Saphery is the default spell for High so thats 3 units with 5+AS and 5+Ward.
Chaos Lord Sorcerer lvl 4 w/ lore of shadows
Chaos sorcerer lvl 2 w/ Nurgle and spell familiar
I pair them up because Nurgle relies lots on them failing stat tests, which shadows drops XD
Drop their stats to shizz
And if you're REALLY lucky, you can drop their strength or toughness to 1 with spells 2 and 3, then rot them to nothing with Curse of leper
You can also pick off important stuff with buboes
Good luck, i played like that previously (admittedly against bretonnia) and only failed when i consistently rolled double ones for winds of magic....
But that's my plan for low toughness and/or strength armies.
WORSHIP THE VINDICATOR!!! (And a Drop Pod full of Combie-Melta Sternguard never hurts either)
You can't have duplicated spells, so no... you can't cast flames of phoenix twice in the same magic phase unless you have teclis... but again i think only in very big games you can fit teclis and an archmage lvl 4 in the same army...
If your worry are the sword tzeencht warriors with shield will handle em pretty well
Cheers for the advice, will type an armylist and chuck it up for reviews
My suggestion is to take nothing but casters and a BSB for characters. A Daemon Prince isn't bad against elves actually, since they only have S6 RBTs to deal with him, and it's a single shot, multi-wound weapon. ASF is a **** though. More on that later. Anyways, for casters I'd look at either Shadows for the S/T/Ini spells, and then either Nurgle for the stat-killers, or Tzeentch in support.
As for ASF- the thing you want to watch for are big block of spearelves. They look harmless, but expect to lose 2 shielded warriors for every 30 Elves you see attacking. Not so bad, but we have 15 attacks, we're only killing 4 Elves. They can grind us down before we even realize where our boys have gone. Hit them with anything to knock out their Initiative. That will drop their rerolls. For Lions and Swordmasters, look for knocking down their strength, or catching a flank, or anything to reduce the number of attacks they get.
By the way- we have nothing to fear from Dragon Princes. Our knights outfight them any day of the week as long as they don't get the drop on us.
Finally- watch out for Lore of Life, more than anything. He might still have a Teclis-Caster in the army as well, with a Book of Hoeth (IF on doubles). Lore of Life will ruin your day, because he'll be bringing back dead elves, tossing wounds back onto characters, and making himself Tough7 or boosting his strength.
I believe that the best way to deal with elves is a sorcerer lord of tzeentch level 4 with ward save 3+ and armour save 1+ (or 2+ if you prefer him on foot). Of course your best tools against his magic are infernal puppet and the black tongue. Against white lions/swordmasters you should focus your shooting and offensive spells. I know it sound mad, but perhaps you should concider using a unit of marauder horsemen with javalins/throing axes to shoot his swordmasters (and perhaps it is just me). A slaanesh sorcerer level 2 would also be good, since the lore of slaanesh is realy good against elves.
They got higher initiative anyway, so consider using marauders with great weapons. You will wound on 2+ and bypass most armour, and his units cost at least twice per model. A horde of these with mark of khorne would get many attacks, and it would take care of most enemy units, but you will have to fear spells such as "dwellers from bellow". If your opponent choose the lore of metal then marauders will be usefull against him.
Hell cannon could be realy usefull, they shoot well (and shooting is important against elves) and they will do pretty good in melee.
Lore of Shadows will help tremendously, in particular Melkoth's Mystifying Miasma. Amazing utility with that spell. You could take a Shadow Sorc Lord and take the Book of Secrets on an Exalted Hero to get the spell twice.
-Dropping initiative can keep most elves from getting their ASF hit rerolls against Warrior blocks.
-Worried about a shooty unit? Drop their BS.
-Drop a unit's Move to restrict mobility; potentially stopping a charge or keeping a unit around to be charged.
-Drop enemy WS in a pinch.
-Boost to drop them all.
The other Hex spells will tip things in your favor nicely. Pit & Pendulum though could be a bit useless, unless targeting blocks that have had their Initiative dropped via Miasma. Some people might think Okkam's Mindrazor a bit wasted on elves, but don't worry if you roll it. Might turn out to be incredibly useful if the elf player is raising the toughness of his blocks with magic.
I also like to keep around a lvl2 Tzeentch Sorc with a spell familiar, just to get Pandemonium. While yes, it can be easy to dispel for the enemy in his own Magic Phase, he's dumping dice to do so. If he doesn't, then he risks Miscasts. (And you've got an Infernal Puppet somewhere, right?) Very useful against magic heavy armies of any kind.
Last edited by psichotykwyrm; October 11th, 2010 at 01:18.
"It takes a vast amount of self control to be this dangerous."
---Ogvai Ogvai Helmshrot, Jarl of Tra, VI Legion Astartes
Definately Law of Shadows to drop stats is a solid tactic vs elves. Lower BS for shooting, lower I to prevent re-rolls to hit, and lower strength to make those SM attacks bounce.
A support caster, with Third Eye of Tz can be great aswell, to give you access to some of the nicer defensive/buff spells you often find those pesky elves carrying.
Finally I read an intersting math hammer post, highlighing that the best unit to take down SM, point for point, is khorne maurauders with great weapons. Just make sure you take alot of them in horde!