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The WoC forum has been a little quiet the last days... let's open up some topics for discussion in order to get us going again!
So, the Hellcannon. Do/don't you own a Hellcannon?
Why do/don't you use it in your army?
What is the general strategies for the Hellcannon and how does it relate to the rest of your specific army lists?
What do you take out of your list in order to get the cannon in there? Does it replace something else in your list or do you rather build your list around having it?
Know any Hellcannon combos or unusal uses for it?
Personally I've been thinking about the Lore of Death spell Doom and Darkness that lowers leadership by 3. If you manage to get it off in your magic phase and then fire the Hellcannon at that unit you can force them to take a panic test at -4! That's in many cases a unit gone, no matter how big it was from the beginning. There is a 72% chance of succeding with a Ld 8 test, but only ca a 16% chance with Ld 4! If you add re-rolls to this the odds are 92% versus ca 30%. Really reliable, if you do get it off. And still just a bonus to the damage you cause.
EDIT: Oh, and what about throwing a Doom Totem into that army?
Warhammer Fantasy: Warriors of Chaos, High Elves
Warhammer 40k: Eldar, Space Marines, Orks
I don't own a Hellcanon of my own yet, but I've seen it used in two ways that were both pretty effective.
1. As a charging monster down a flank. In the whole game it didn't even fire once - Thunderstomped its way through an mass of Empire Halberdiers like the Hulk it is.
2. As an artilary piece, quite alone in the center of the board with a BSB/Doom Banner on a nearby hill and a Sorcerer of Tzeentch on Disc. who spammed Pandamonium every magic round. Worked very well against the Skaven army he was up against blowing up whole hoards and sending them fleeing.
On the other hand, I've also seen it blow up with a 15-inch blast radius on turn one! I would imagine a wizard with Lore of Light could really ruin your day too [3d6 hits str.5-8].
Combining Hellcannon/Doom Totem with a high-level Hellshriek Slaanesh caster with Diabolic Splender would seriously hurt an army that isn't immune to panic.
Sona si Latine loqueris.
I have yet to purchase one, but I must concede that it has the potential to be a game changer.
This is probably the reason that I have yet to see this unit on Ebay for less than retail price from GW. I may proxy one in a friendly game just to see how it would go and would absolutely use it in conjunction with a Doom Totem.
5000 pts of WoC, 5000 pts of Orcs and now 3000 pts of Ogres...What was I thinking ????
I got one, and use it since i started playing WoC, maybe some memories of my dwarf times, but i must admit it just let me down one time it blew in turn one killing 5 marauder horseman, so from turn 1 I was 300 pts under je but i managed to get a massacre anyways... and it has to be with the deployment my friend took cos the hellcannon.
I'm mostly use it to fire, but i got a lot of succes tarpitting units.
Back in 7th it killed a 15man of black guard all by himself.
And in a tournament it missfired and caused a miscast in evry wizard, that maked a whole unit of Brettonians KoR flee the table for panic with BSB and damsel just awesome
Against str5+ models, it can have a rough go in combat, but against str4 and below, it can rock. I had mine break an entire unit of saurus warriors once. It was amazing. That's nothing something I'm going to count on in game after game, but it can really be a combat beast, against the right enemy unit.
Perfectly said: It has the ability to be game-changing. And it does. Got me a draw last week be holding up 2 chariots and 30 gors for 3 turns and then ultimately running down said gors.
Had it panic a bullhorse with bsb/tyrant off the table in the scenario where you break if you lose banners/general. Yeah that was turn 1 before he even moved. We decided to keep playing with the assumption he passed the panic. 2 turns later he panicked them again. I technically won 3 times that game :p
I never leave home without it. Had a game where i panicked a large unit of black orcs on turn one. They turned tail and ran through their artillary, which in turn panicked and so couldn't fire on its next turn. The next turn they rallied, but found that their artillary was in the way so it took another two turns of moving to get his unit back into the game......
Then again. I have also had it blow up on turn one.
Honestly, the monster and handler rules is what makes this guy better in 8th edition. You basically get a 5+ ward that you can use until you succeeded 3 times. Beastmen rare choices would kill for what this guy brings to the table defensively. And he's 70pts cheaper. Man did they ever butcher my beastmen book
My tactics for my entire army basically focus on the idea of MT:G decks and their "win conditions". My usual win condition is to destroy the enemy's most elite regiment, one way or another. I either hit it with the Shadows/Curse combo, or try to panic it if possible. To this end:
Doom Totem + Doom and Darkness and/or Pandaemonium + Hellcannon shot = Run for the hills
However, Hellcannons should NOT fire unless you need to hit a specific target. They're not Mortars- you have more important jobs for them than just sitting in your deployment zone and blasting away 2-3 skinks per turn.
I usually put them on my flanks or 1 unit in from the flanks. So either:
Cannon < army > Cannon
Flankers < Cannon << army >> Cannon > Flankers
As flankers of their own, they are good for making surprisingly effective counter-charges into enemy flankers, or counter-flanking any regiment that gets to your warriors. This deployment also lets them fire a little more often, since you can March-Fire-March each turn and only be slightly behind your Warriors.
If you field them inside your flanks, they make amazing "pseudo anvils". The enemy will rarely field devastating units that far from the center, so your cannon is likely going up against comparatively squishy core choices, which he can hold up or break with ease. If he stalemates, you have flankers on either side of him that you can commit to the fight and tip it in his favor.
The Cannons are my favorite Rare Choice, with the Warshrine running a close second. The Warshrine can buff units (not as big a deal as people think) and has excellent Tar-pit power. A Hellcannon will not only hold up the enemy, but literally stomp them into the mud with ease.
Yes it is as big of a deal as people think. I'd say almost every game my raged knights and BSB with favor end up with +1 attack. They flat out murder things.
I also like to keep my cannon back and shoot at any infantry block. If you roll a hit on T3 guys, you'll gut an entire unit. Average killing 17-18 guys. Yeah, I'll take that. Take a simple 20 man spear unit, on average a direct hit kills 15.
Last edited by Pinkus; October 22nd, 2010 at 16:22.