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Just wanting to check the argument in favour of using the shadow spell The Withering to reduce toughness of a unit by D3 (to min 1) (pg498 BR and then using Curse of the Leper which reduces the toughness and Strength of a unit by 1 and then further 1 each friendly magic phase while the spell is in play.
i tried to use this combo during a friendly game (my friend is much more experienced and usually wins so I don't feel bad about trying this on). He reckoned that the spells wouldn't stack, that they both subtract from the value listed in the book. I reckoned they would subtract from what they were at the time the spell was cast. There didn't seem to be anything that could clarify this for us that we could locate. In the end we agreed to disagree and rolled a dice to see what we would use. I won that but then couldn't roll enough power dice to even try to bring it home for me.
Without discussing the moral or ethical quandry of using such cheese, can anyone identify any reference or precedent that backs the cumulative approach and lets me have a chance at popping a whole unit in one go? Has anyone used in any tournament or GW event that would indicate a broad level of acceptance of this interpretation?
It's quite possible, and works in exactly the way you thought it would - saying it doesn't stack is imho plain denial.
Now of course, if you SHOULD use this, unless facing twelve billion skaven slaves or a thorek gunline, that's a different story entirely. Plus, it's not that practical, since both spells are relatively easy to dispell, and the combo requires at least 400 points worth of mages, and most of your power dice.
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Yeah, and you have to rely on getting both of those spells when you roll them up at the beginning of the game.
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well, if you really want to use the combo...
festus + a lvl 4 shadow with spell familiar guarantees it as you'll always have at least one of the -d3S or -d3T spells and the chance of getting one of them with a plain lvl 4 shadow is pretty high as well
not to mention that festus is pure unadulterated filth with khornate warriors with AHWs
You just have to cast the shadow spell first. If you nurgle them down a str and then shadow them you stop at 1str. Other way around you vaporize units. Its pretty straight forward.
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Its probably worth saying that I get the order it should be done (because shadow stops at 1) and I also realise it has potential to be tricky to get the right spells without taking a lvl 4 shad and another caster - although Festus may be the answer), AND that actually being "allowed" to cast these both is unlikely. I figure my best shot will be as a surprise to someone who hasn't seen it before. What I really need is a rationale that eestablishes that it should be allowed compared with his "you only affect the starting stat" argument. Precedents? Tournament usage? anything other than my approach of "but it just says you lower their str so that MUST be their current str" argument.
Cheers for answering guys - I appreciate it
Tell him it stacks. For example, a Greatweapon gives you +2S in hand to hand, and if you cast a spell that gives you +3S, you add the two together. Why wouldn't a negative boost work that way? Yeah, the combo is nasty, but to be honest, I've hardly ever been able to force it through when I really needed it. You're relying on a LOT of dice.
That doesn't mean that I don't always have Festus in my list though, because yes- he's devastating when combined with Frenzied AHW models.