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Thread: Champions?

  1. #1
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    Champions?

    I've seen this around the forums for a while, and just thought i'd ask. What is the logic behind not buying champions? is it because you paying to much for an extra attack and you could take another warrior for those points? also which units are worth buying champs for, other than chosen of course (Favour of the Gods!)?

    May the Eye of the Gods bless you with Divine Greatness!

    Korahn


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  3. #2
    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    1480 (x8)

    Usually, yes, it is because we could buy another whole Warrior for that price. Also, because we have to challenge once that champion is in the unit. So let's take this example, for instance:

    You've just smashed through a regiment of Empire spearmen, and overrun into the rear of his army, catching a regiment of Handgunners escorting his Wizard lord. You have a champion in your unit, so you must challenge him. Wisely, because he has no armor on his wizard, he refuses. Now you get to send one of his characters to the back, but it's just the Wizard. Now he's in the second rank, safely out of reach. Next turn he casts a Lore of Shadow spell and escapes, offering you a much cheaper L1 Scroll-Caddy to kill instead.

    If you didn't have a champion in the unit, you could have directed 2-3 models' worth of attacks at him, which would've been even better than challenging him even if he did accept. That's one dead wizard.

    Chosen do very well with Champions. It can be argued that Champions can issue/accept challenges in place of our actual Characters, so a lot of people put Champions in escort units so that they can pick and choose which challenges their Character has to face. Otherwise, I tend to avoid champions unless I have extra points lying around with nothing to put them towards. The only other time I've included a champion, was when I had a unit of Warriors bumped up to carry Additional Hand Weapons, MoN, and Banner of Rage. He was challenge bait, and a target for Okkam's Mind-Razor. The enemy would come up with their Lord or whatnot, and suddenly find themselves pitted against a challenger with WS5, and 5 S8 attacks. If they didn't kill him right away, he'd eat them in the second round.
    Last edited by CaptainSarathai; January 20th, 2011 at 23:30.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

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    thanks Captain, very helpful info.

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    Senior Member talismanictattoo's Avatar
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    The cost for a champ is generally tooo high for the rewards. indeed it's just an extra attack and an inconvience in regards to challanges and whatnot, as already explained.
    However, with the new headtaking rules, chaos champions have a higher potential (which they will not often realize). A paticular favorite of mine is the Dragon ogre champion, as his stats are higher than most non-chaos characters.


    Also, I'd just like to throw out there that anyone who issues/accepts challanges with their champions when they have characters in their unit, well they are just a slimey worm that will never realized the full favor of chaos. They should fall on their own blades to redeem their cowardice.
    Last edited by CaptainSarathai; January 22nd, 2011 at 19:55.

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    Benevolent Dictator CaptainSarathai's Avatar
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    Head-taking has made our Champs into potential VP-grabbers, since they don't have much trouble killing low level characters if the enemy makes the mistake of forgetting a Wardsave.

    Haha, I understand your loathing for people who accept challenges with mere Champions rather than a full-blooded Scion of the Dark Gods. However, in game terms, I find the rule somewhat silly. I know that GW wants us to play to the fiction and have a good time etc, and against a friendly opponent, I don't mind letting my Sorcerers take a few extra risks in challenges. However, in a tournament game, or against someone who's running Skulltaker on a Juggernaut, I'd prefer my Sorcerer General doesn't step forward and watch himself be cut down. I can see a lot of 'fluff' reasons why you would avoid fights and use a champion instead.
    "M'lord, that sergeant over there is looking a bit uppity" "Go take care of him Veshyr- he's beneath me."
    A cadre of Warriors is protecting their severely wounded (1W remaining) leader
    Choosing discretion and deception over valor, a wiser General allows an upstart champion to bite off more than he can chew, sparing himself from a premature end

    I can imagine that the greatest and most successful Chaos leaders are the ones who learn when it is good to slaughter a rival, and when it is best to live to fight another day. They're not all blood-mad butchers after all. Perhaps it should've just been a rule for Khorne Heroes.
    Pts Values for AoS here!

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    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainSarathai View Post
    against someone who's running Skulltaker on a Juggernaut
    The Dragon Helm is a wonderous Item indeed. A 2+ Ward save against Fire. What's that Skull Taker? You have flaming attacks? Well isn't that nice.....

    This bizzarely happened to me a few games ago (I didn't even tailor!) Now Skull Taker runs and hides from my Exalted.

    Sorry to go off on a tanget. Carry on.

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    Senior Member talismanictattoo's Avatar
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    While I agree that it can be supported fluffwise, and there are tactical situations support it. However, to me the spirit of the rules are obvious, as we have characters that are obligated to partake in challanges and champions who are not. To me it is clear that Champions were not ment to take challanges in place of characters unless a warshrine is present and grants them the same obligations.

    EOTG rule: "A model that may issue a challange must do so whenever they are able." I do not champions lacking this rule trumping it.
    "Chaos Characters may not refuse challanges" This one is open, as if a champion accepts the challange, it is technically not refused. However it is common knowladge that the characters have to issue challanges so most opponents just wait for it to come out at them, leaving little chances for the champion to get in there.

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    Senior Member talismanictattoo's Avatar
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    for some reason i seem to duplicate my posts =(
    Last edited by talismanictattoo; January 23rd, 2011 at 17:01. Reason: Dupluicate

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