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Hey guys, I know I posted about a few month ago saying I am starting on fantasy but I had to delay that idea until now. I play 40k and understand that fantasy is quite different then 40k but hope it won't be difficult to understand.
1 reason why I wanted to go with warriors of chaos is because I wanted a very viking feel for my army, so i believe I want to go with a full khorne army. just wondering if that is competitive enough.
as of now I only have 1 battalion on the way, wont be coming until febuary 1, and the codex. I have only 1 box of warriors that I have already began working on. my question is where do I go from there? i know i need a fantasy rulebook, but wonder if I should just get the hard cover or go with the set that is similar to black reach even though I do not need either army.
To be honest there not really much wrong you can do with Chaos. If you want Huge blocks of frothing mad Khorne Marauders and not much else you'll do alright. If you want ranks upon ranks of silent and brooding Chaos Warriors you wont go wrong. If you want to do Cavalry you wont go wrong......... Chaos just 'works'
Having said that though there are a few tips. Mainly on weapon options and unit size.
Weapons - If you're wanting to go Khorne then I'd grab either Flails or Great weapons. Both will see you do well in the game. You don;t get great weapons in the box but simply cut the chains off the flails and use the axe heads from the 'hand weapons' to make your two handed axes.
Unit Size - Marauders die fast so take lots of them. By 'lots' I mean around the 25-30 Mark. Some people like to take units of 40 or more. Me? I like 30. It just feels nice.
Weapons. Best bet is Halberds. Unfortunately the best weapon doesn't come in the box. You CAN order them from GWs weapon packs bit or convert them yourself it's up to you. Otherwise if you want to go Khorne grab 2 hand weapons. Just don;t go great weapons on Warriors.
Unit Size. Unlike Marauders Warriros don't die in droves. Unless something is going seriously wrong. Units as small as 12 do well.
Weapons - Don't take Lances. Stick with your Magic weapons.
Unit Size - Just like Warriors they don't need to be big. 5 Khorne knights will kill pretty much everything.
By gum there's so many ways to use these. Mainly for hunting enemy light cavalry or Warmachines. Just give them flails and the Mark of Khorne if you're feeling frisky and you'll do fine.
Exalteds are hard as nails. Harder than most Lord choices for other races. We have SO many ways of feilding them, weapon options, magic options there are seriously to many to post here. There is a thread about what to arm them with somewhere. have a look.
Lords. Harder than a Coffin nail. A bigger tougher version than an Exalted, other than that? Not much different.
Scorcerers. Are you going to take them with a Khorne army? you don;t have to but some magic defence might be an idea.
Thanks for the help Lord Barak as always. I most likely will take sorcerers but not to the point where I will be heavily dependent on them. What I'm mostly facing would be beastman, high elves and dwarfs I believe. But almost all my battles would be with beastman then follow by high elves.
Ok I understand the unit size for each army , but I also understand that unlike 40k, there is ranks and line I believe that's what its called? how would one position the army?
First of all, welcome to fantasy and thank you for not choosing those pathetic high elves. I see so many new players pick them and I take pity on them for their lack of originality, for want of a better word. Just because they strike first doesn't mean that we can't beat them in every phase of the game (shooting excluded).
Yes, ranks can be quite important. For each rank of 5 or more models you have, you gain an extra point of combat res. The same also goes for banners, charging, higher ground etc. With warriors, it's only worth taking 2 ranks at the most. You can only get one extra attack from models in the back ranks, so they lose an attack each in back ranks at the least. Also, they don't really need the extra combat res. Kit them out right, and even with 12 you should win almost any combat you enter. They're also far too expensive to waste attacks in the rear ranks, with each costing as much as 3 Marauders, even without upgrades. They also have a 4+ armour save basic, which will go a long way to keeping them alive longer than other units.
Whereas warriors are the expensive elites of the army, Marauders are the cheap, expendable hordes. They form large blocks in the centre of the army to attract shooting away from the warriors. Use them in ranks 10 wide and 3 or more deep for maximum effectiveness. The horde rule means that if you have the unit 10 wide they can attack in 3 ranks instead of 2, effectively adding half of your attacks again. With flails or great weapons and MoK they can become a cheap, deadly horde which can both take a great deal of cheap casualties and also dish out a lot of wounds to the enemy, their high strength (due to their weapons) effectively canceling out the enemy's armour. They should form the centre of your battle line, distracting enough to draw fire from your warriors and strong enough that they will still be a threat to the enemy.
Knight, marauder horsemen and warhounds should be on the flanks in small, fast units which can counter the enemy's attempts to flank you warriors and marauders. Knights are ideal for the role of charging up the enemy's flank and smashing into the hardest unit they find. They fulfil a similar role to terminators in 40k, an indestructible wall of metal which crushes everything it encounters if played right.
Hope this helps.
For "positioning" your units, you want to keep your ranks nice and even. Commonly, you want to have at least 5 models in each rank, with the 'Horde' rule (additional rank of attacks) kicking in at 10 (you need a minimum of 30 models to benefit from Hording).
So if you have 12 Warriors, you'll probably deploy them in a block 6 wide and 2 deep. There are lots of arguments about 'min-maxing' your ranks. Personally, I feel that most of our Warrior units do best when deployed 5 wide, unless you have a very high number of attacks.
Every rank will give you +1 to your score in combat, and so will a kill. The +1 from a rank is called "Static Combat Resolution" (SCR), which means that you can rely on that score. Attacks are a soft score- they might work, or you might roll like a lama and score a fat '0'. Because of this, I'd rather focus on ranks. And remember- your enemy is going to get more attacks every time you widen your ranks. This can really hurt when you're on a 25mm base, as some configurations mean that that extra guy is netting 2 extra inbound attacks! Again, it's like min-maxing: you want as many men in contact, killing as many enemies as possible, with as many ranks as you can feasibly have, but at the same time, you don't want to be inviting a ton of attacks back at yourself.
Because of the kill/death ratio, some people don't like to use Marauders in the same CC combat as Warriors. Without fail, the enemy will always target the Marauders and rack up easy kills. If they kill enough, your Warriors may not make up the difference, and both the Marauders and Warriors will lose and risk fleeing. So where MighisRight is giving very good and very accurate advice, you will also see players (like myself) who don't field Marauders on the line with their other troops, and leave the hard fighting up to Warriors.
Edit: Although I said that I prefer to stick to Ranks to win combat, that doesn't mean that you should be fielding huge regiments of warriors. The "sweetspot" that most people have found is running 15 or 18 depending on whether you are five wide or six. The smallest that most people run their units is about 12 models in a 6x2 formation. Our Warriors are expensive, and a lot of what we pay for are "combat specific" stats. You want as many Warriors on the front of a combat as possible, and you're wasting points and effectiveness by spending almost 100pts just to get an extra rank.
MightisRight- not all of the High Elf players that you meet are newbies. I've been using HE for the past 12 years, and I can tell you: a lot of the veterans are very skillful players. We didn't always have ASF, and we used to have to work for our wins. Seeing the noobs does make my heart cry a bit, but I felt the same way about Vampire Counts and even Warriors sometimes. Back when VC were top tier, everyone was flooding to them, but I remember when they were horrible (almost as bad as they are now) and I still fielded them. Warriors are just tough as nails, so there's definitely some bandwagon jumping taking place at times.
I'm not badmouthing HE players in general, I'm just sick of newbies going to them because they're new and get bonuses like ASF which seem impossible to beat for them. I also know some very experienced and skilled players with HE, and the same with VC.
What Sarathai said about Marauders is very valid. You need to be careful with combat res and Marauders. I usually make sure to either kit them up so that they can make up their losses, or use them and warriors in different combats. As an example, when I have Marauder blocks in the centre I sometimes use warriors on the flanks, for countercharges or other such uses. The thing is to balance danger for the Marauders with their potential for dealing and taking damage. Remember, each warrior that is killed is worth 3 Marauders, so however many wounds they take are that many your elites DON'T.
Last edited by MightisRight; January 26th, 2011 at 11:45.
Welcome to Warhammer Fantasy, and as a dedicated WoC player, trust me when I say there are a lot of things to look out for.
First off, Warriors of Chaos are almost barren of any shooting weapons. There are Marauder Horsemen with thrown weapons and a Hellcannon. Unfortunately, thats about it. However, this is made up for with pretty much horrifying combat skill and armour as thick as tank chassis. During one battle, I had a unit of 10 Warriors against my friend's unit of about 15 Dwarf warriors. They spent the entire game running away, turning around, screwing up combat res and running again. The Dwarves were reduced to about three models, whilst I haden't lost a single Warrior.
However, that means you are dependant on legging it to your enemy as fast as humanly (or norsemanly) possible. Also, if your opponent knows it, he's gonna just sit on a hill blowing your brains out with his superior shooting advantages. I once played a game against the same friend (a Dwarf player), who wised up and got about three cannons and 2 units of Thunderers sitting on a hill, surrounded by warriors and his hero. I am ashamed to say I didn't kill a single model thanks to his Cannon-Sniping abilities. When against these annoying opponents, try to get as much moving mightiness as possible. Marauder Horsemen, Chaos Knights (considered one of the nastiest cavalry units in warhammer) and even Warhounds can draw vital fire at times. Wulfrik the Wanderer is valuable as well, being able to enter as a reserve off any table ledge with a beefy unit of marauders (the last thing those wreched cannoneers will be expecting)
Finally, Magic. Chaos Magic is the stuff of pownage, having three lores in the army book alone. Although Khorne is a good choice for an army ideal for pounding ogres into the mud, some magical defence is a good move as Lord Borak mentioned. Magical defence AND offence. For example, Curse of the Leper in Lore of Nurgle; huge unit of Skaven or Goblins in the way? Curse reduces the target unit's (yes, UNIT) strength and toughness by one every friendly magic phase. Should it reach 0, an entire unit practically drops dead. Treason of Tzeentch, your selected unit basically attacks itself with weapons of your choice. They may even panic afterwards and run off the table. Slaanesh's Ecstatic Seizures, causes a unit to pass a toughness test or die, even without ward saves or regeneration. Chaos Magic, when used correctly, can turn the tides of the entire battle with the click of a sorcerer's fingers. As well as that, even the Sorcerers are beastly should they be face to face with a challenging champion. They are one of few wizards who wear armour, already granting a 4+ armour save due to Chaos Armour, and are more than capable of beating something to death with a stick.
I hope this helps when you start your fearsome warband fellow champion of the ruinous powers, and welcome to Fantasy once again!
"We have done the impossible, and that makes us mighty." Sergeant Malcolm Reynolds, Firefly
thank you for all the help everyone. I rally appreciate it. I had posted something up a few days earlier but I guess i clicked out of it too quickly and it didnt post.
Anyways. I now officially have 1 box of warriors which are 1hand with shield. I have my codex and 1 battalion on the way. Coming in next week. Where do I go from here? I know I need the rulebook but I wonder which is a better deal. the rulebook by itself or the HE and Skaven set with the rulebook and some extra stuff.
My friend told me to also get the lord on juggernaught or try to make the named valkarie. is this option good and if so how do I convert the valkarie.
My first actual match might be against either another warrior of chaos or beastmen.
My friend also say when I go muraders a good 30 men is good enough. how many ranks and how many rows he did not say.
I dont mind having a few sorcerers. I just want to have a very norse feeling to it. and a few sorcerers could fit right in.
I'd suggest a horde of 10X3 for Marauders as I said before. As for a next step, a character is essential (rules and effectiveness wise). I'd also suggest more warriors - the more death you can dish out the better. In a 2000pt list I have 2 units of 14 warriors and 1 of 20. On the other hand, if you really want a hard hitting element you can't go wrong with chaos knights or trolls. Trolls are less reliable than knights because of stupidity, but dish out a similar amount of attacks, have more wounds and can vomit through armour. They also get to roll on EoTG if they regenerate twice in 1 phase, so they should get stronger throughout the game.
The Starter Box is ok if you can find something to do with the High Elves and Skaven. If not then it's pretty pointless. The mini rule book is alot easier to carry around though so unless you're after a decent work out I'd grab the mini book (They're being sold on ebay for about £16 I think)
Right, next perchase. You need a General. In most cases you want Fighty character and a caster. It's up to you what you want to take but a Level 4 Wizard and an Exalted hero as a Battle Standard bearer is a good way to go (its fairly easy to make a BSB, if you want some ideas just ask)
I wouldn't grab a hero on Jugger if I were you. For one they can be picked out by enemy shooting. If your friend has an army with Cannons in it your Lord will be a nice target to practice on. A normal character on Barded Steed will do you fine if you're going for Knights, if not just take a hero on foot.
30 Marauders is a good size and it depends on how you want to run them. If you want to go Khorne then I'd take quite a wide frontage. If you're going for shield/Tzeentch then I'd go 5 wide 6 deep.