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Hi to all, I'm new to this forum-ing lark, so go easy on me please =]
So I haven't been playing WFB long, under a year in fact, but I knew the rules back in 6th and 7th Ed., and I've read the rulebook for 8th, but may have missed a few things, just don't ask me to recite from memory the ins and outs.
Anyway, down to the questions:
1. Looking at peoples army lists, I notice no-one seems to use large blocks of 30+ warriors. Why not? Am I missing something? I regularly use a block of 30 in 1000 and 1500 points games, albeit with either MoT, shields and Blasted standard, or Banner of Rage, MoK and extra hand weapons. I realise I sacrifice both manoeuvrability and become a massive points sink, but including the supporting attacks (and assuming im getting 7 models into base contact including diagonals) I get either 29 WS5 attacks, or 43 WS5 attacks respectively. They take down everything from giants to the arachnarok spider which i defeated today (albeit with some help from a sorceror); being such a large unit they can withstand massive amounts of damage from shooting and combat (once they get there), they still get insane amounts of attacks off. So how come everyone uses units of 12-20 warriors instead of the bigger unit?
2. I have 5 marauder horsemen, having only bought one box. Now, I play two different armies of Orcs and Goblins, and soon to also fight Ogre kingdoms too. The horsemen have been useful, but pretty much mainly in the suicidal role of teasing out fanatics. I know they have more uses, but against Orcs and Goblins (predominantly goblins apart from Black Orcs) They seem a bit wasted in this role. I know I could use hounds, but I don't have the models, and I would like fast cavalry, plus the models are amazing. SO, what is a better way of using the marauder horsemen? Should I get more? Or are they more useful at prising out the fanatics and therefore preventing fanatics smashing my warriors?
3. I don't field marauders, (marauder horsemen exluded) is this a mistake? As most Warriors of Chaos armies seem to have marauders in. I see their value as cannon fodder, but the drop in WS, S, T, A, I and Ld seems to remove Warriors of Chaos's elite edge. Although, the ability to field a block of 100 with flails and such is hilariously evil and I respect it's destructive value, but it would cost an arm and a leg to buy.
4. I usually field 2 Sorcerors in my 1500 games, usually both of Tzeentch. this question is in three parts:
a) both sorcerors are level 2, and one takes a spell familiar. If I roll a duplicate for spells, ie, Sorceror 1 rolls: 1, 2 and 6, and Sorceror 2 rolls 5 and 6, does the second roll of 6 revert to a 1 because you can only have one of each spell in the army? (I may have misunderstood this rule)
b) the same question again, but if sorceror 1 rolls a 1, 3 and 3 again, I cannot revert the second 3 to a 1. Do I now pick or roll again? As a friend did this and picked the spell he wanted, to the contention of both me and our third friend.
c) Finally, what are the benefits to putting the sorceror into a unit? I always field my heroes and lords as single models, for flexibility, and if the sorcerors miscast they can helpfully avoid destroying their accompanying unit with the blast template, and maybe avoid a wound themselves if the roll is right. So: Is it better to leave characters as single models or is it more beneficial that I join units?
I should note, I like to win, but I don't want to have my opponents not enjoy the game. So insights on if any of this sounds a bit cheesy, or just fun ways to play, I welcome them =]
Thank you for putting up both with my very likely long winded delivery, unfortunately, that is just me.
And as a final question, are spawn just too unreliable/not worth it now?
Welcome to the boards, here are my two cents:
1. The giant block of warriors is quite deadly as you say, but don't forget when you get flanked-charged you will not get supporting attacks, and if its a solid unit, you lose your rank bonus too! One failed combat res. against a multiple rank flank charge and you have lost the game. Uber-Magic can devastate you too. Personally, I like to have a little more flexibility in my army, but a lot of cheese-builds also incorperate mega-units like 40 warriors - with great success too. Bit boring for your friends to play against though.
2. If you like the models then get more - vanguard is pretty cool and great with a Slaanesh exalted, but I prefer hounds as they are a cheaper suicide unit.
3. Marauders are good, but not awesome like warriors so relax if you don't have any. Howeverer, don't forget WS4 is pretty good for a such a cheap unit and with Khorne/Flails [or GW's] they should never be underestimated. 40 marauders with MoK/FC/Flails [or GWs] is comparable cost-wise to a unit of 12 warriors with a Mark and magic Banner. Very good for steadfast-blocking thunderstomp monsters.
4. If you roll a double you get to choose your spell, so very nice for you really. No need to reroll for spells, ever.
5. Put your sorcerer in the corner of the unit, less collateral damage. The benifit of having him in a unit is that he gets a LoS roll, which will save him 5/6 times from instant death by warmachines or magic turn 1. Alternatively you can stand him 3 inches from a unit of the same troop type and he gets a 4+ save - three times more risk, but marginally safer against miscasts, for people who like to play dodgeball I guess.
Spawn are unbreakable, so unreliable is the last word I'd use to describe them, unpredictable - a bit maybe, but still T5 W3! Trolls on the other hand...[but then Trolls are a differnt sort of awesome].
I find that the best games are with the army models you love the look of, so start there and expand your tactics afterwards. We really don't have any 'bad units' per say...just good, awesome, and the cat's pajama's!
Sona si Latine loqueris.
In answer to c), people usually place Heros and lords in units as it makes them harder targets- they can't be shot at, only the unit, so most, if not all, the wounds go on the unit, not the character, prolonging their lifespan.
@Ascendo Tuum :
I think you might be mistaken about disruption. It has been my understanding, and everyone at the shop I play at, that Disruption only affects your CR score, and does not prevent you from making supporting attacks. The only description that I found of what disruption does is "A unit does not receive combat result points for extra ranks as long as it is disrupted" (52, mini rule book). Please correct me if I am wrong, but he would still get his supporting attacks even if his horde of Warriors is disrupted.
I meant that flanks and rear units do not get supporting attacks, so if I hit your horde of 4x10 warriors from the side only 4 models will be allowed to attack the flanking unit [p.49 RB]. Also, there is no parry save against flanking attacks either, which makes them that extra bit more devastating. Thus warhounds become important as decoys, and BSB's are crucial for redirecting. /restraining.
Sona si Latine loqueris.
Welcome to the forum mate. Don't worry about it, everyone was new here once and, like me, some people still have no idea about forums even though they've been here for years.
1) Big units of warriors area points sink but they are good denial. You're opponent will have to put in alot of effort just to kill that one unit. The down side of that is, if he does kill it you've lost the game. So many spells out there love big units like those. Foot of Gork will happily swuish 15 Warriors on 2's. Dwellers below will kill a 3rd of the unit and Gateway, well you know about Gateway. So for me, I prefer to have my eggs spread around as I am pants scared of loosing all my toys in one shot.
The other thing you have to think of is value for money. You're big block of warriors, the ranks behind the first are only getting 1 attack. That's not making use of your 2 attacks basic (that you pay alot of points for), frenzy and additional hand weapons. That just isn't good value for points. So this is another reason why I like to take small units, say 12 or so. I'm still dishing out huge amounts of attacks but have multiple units, which gives me more manauverability, tactical options and the ability to not be flanked. Plus, a death star can only be in one place at a time.
2) Dogs are better for suicide units, just from a points perspective! Horsemen are good for Warmachine hunting though, although so are dogs! But enough about dogs, Horsemen are better for suicide units than Warriors so I guess you're stuck with them for that role. If I didn;t have hounds I'd take 4 to 6 untis of 5 Slaanesh Horsemen with flails at 3k points. Just to act as bait/redirecting units and to go after warmachines.
3) Nope, I've got a full plate armour and it works perfectly. If you like marauders then take them they're not bad either, especially compared to other troops. Compared to Orcs, who are more expensive, Marauders will still kick their ass. The access to marks, great weapons and their already decent WS (WS4 beats most people) they will have most enemy core units and are quite able to take on the nasty units too!!
4) As far as I understand it you can only have one of each spell in an army. However the number one spell is different so you can have multiples of that spell. If you 'double up' on any spells you can choose another spell, no need to re-roll.
4c) Sorcerers I generally run around on their own unless I'm against an army with lots of shooting and/or magic missles. Other heroes are there for bolstering units LD and combat abilities so I stick them into units. Personal preference though.
Thanks for all your responses, you have given me a few new ideas of how to play instead of the big block of warriors, and to be quite honest, you have made me see marauders in a different light.
I'm going to test out small warrior units in a series of 500 pt 4-way games me and my friends are having. Facing an Arachnarok spider in a 500 pt game is a daunting prospect, but it's always a great test of your troops with something worthwhile...
Just so you know there is some marauder love out there! You can get by without them but particularly in competitive situations i think they are invaluable. The reason for this is that when attacks reach st6 your warriors are dying at the same rate as 5 point marauders! High elves in particular can make all plate armies have nightmares! A unit of 50 khorne marauders with gw has a great chance of beating all the annoying units that warriors struggle against (such as white lions, swordmasters, hydras, hpas etc.). I always like to take both. Lets me have a counter to most things. Hope this helps!
I actually got a novice question too, so I thought I might aswell put it in here
We all know that Chosen champions should go for favoured of the gods to benefit from warshrine/eyes of the gods, right, but would an exhalted hero with favoured of the gods do the same trick?
The character (and any equipment he has) does not get affected by the Chosens initial roll and therefore can't affect it. However if a Warshrine cast it's gaze on the unit (with the exalted in it) he does get to affect the 'units' roll as he is part of the unit and is affected by the roll.
If that makes any sense what so ever.