Welcome to Librarium Online!
Hello, Kail here.
The upgrades the tomb kings have recieved and the Codex rumours suggests that the tomb kings can indeed become a viable army with lots of KB, insane magic, powerful monsters and highly specialised elite units.
TK needed the upgrade, and i am glad for all TK players - but really, i feel that the WoC will get an upgrade which goes in the same direction: insane magic, powerful monsters and elite units - because that is the meaning with WoC. I do know that WoC is one of the only relatively old armies that can take on most enemies without becoming gimmicky. Still, i feel that TK now threatens our position as the army with devastating elite troops, monsters and characters. Could anyone else shed some more light on this topic?
Bear in mind that i have merely watched battles over the last year - i have never played the game, but i know all the rules and got the WoC codex.
Eh I wouldn't be to worried. There's always the "Eee gads they're over powered, they'll kill us all" When the rumours start being thrown around.
I'm sure when the Army book comes out we'll see their real worth. As for replacing us as the elite Infantry of doom I severly doubt that. TK may be tough and possibly strong with KB but their initiative and WS has always been low so their Infantry and smaller monsters (Ushabti) wont worry our Warriors at all.
As for the big monsters of doom, well they sound scary. That Toughness 8, 2+Sv Heroic killing blow Necro sphynx certainly sounds scary, but we can shoot that chap with a Str10 Hell Cannon or use a Chaos Lord on Disc with Glaive of Putrefaction, Potion of Might, Armour of Zhrakk, Endurance and Tzeentch to take down that big chap. He's an amazing Big monster killer.
Never let yourself be fooled by "Good on paper/theory/Rumour" armies.
Let us see - my thread will be here when the sandstorm arrives.
But your comments are always helpful, Lord Borak!
Aye deffinatley. Some sound tactics Vs those pesky dead things would be useful as I'm sure we'll be seeing lots of people starting them.
I did hear that the Tomb King makes the unit he goes in use HIS Ws. That means tomb Guard or what ever will be rocking Ws6. That sounds fairly horrid but I think we'll have more to fear from their monsters.
Hope it is the unmodified WS then (FENCER BLADES - oh the horror)
Meh, WS10 wouldn't be that bad. Ours are WS5 which means we'll still be hitting on 4's. I'm excited because my friend has had TK for years but he has refused to play them since I slaughtered him horribly a year and a half ago.
We have a tomb king player at our club and he gets pounded every time he plays against WOC. In one game he didn't get a single kill point and was wiped from the table. There was nothing fancy or tricky in the army, the the WOC surged forward and smashed him. So yeah, I think they need some help. I'm not so sure that herioc killing blow from the necrosphinx will be so scary, it may only have 1 attack that causes it. My question would be does armour that protects from killing blow work against the herioc killing blow? I would suggest yes, but i'd like to see you try and put that armour on a dragon.
Anyway, i'm going to see if my friend wants a 3k point game when the new book comes out. Should be a fun battle.
As for being worried, pfffffft. The gods will punish you for your lack of faith weakling. Our army is the strongest and it is only a matter of time until they are all crushed beneath our boots.
As a technical point tho, Borak's got it on the head, we have tools to ruin everyone's picnic. Also, they may have eliete troops that can look scarey, but their core is still crap in comparison to ours. 25% is alot don'tcha know?
the main problem i find with warriors of chaos is that they were designed for 7th ed and its very difficult to transfer them the 8th
where as most other armies either got weaker or got better, chaos stayed the same however the weaker armies are all due for updates and so i think we will soon find ourselves outclassed
let me explain better sorry:
warriors of chaos are great for new players and are a very strong army
however there main weakness is prolonged combat where we simply do not have the numbers to make up for any troops lost, this has become a huge problem in 8th where people are now hording there armies and warriors of chaos simply can't do this.
i played a game today against a skaven guy who ran his units 5 wide and 10 deep. as soon as my warriors got into combat they where whittled down. ok i wld win combat but we wld take 2 or 3 guys a turn and then once we were in turn 3 or 4 and my unit was at half strength, in come the doom wheels whipping what was left out
And as for lizardmen, has any1 beet then with WoC? you cant magic them as any 6's you roll are dispelled and you cant beet them in combat
a few days ago i played this guy and my units just bounced off his.massive blocks. i wld have like 14 S4 attacks from the warriors and then 5 S7 from me BsB. thats 7/8 wounds of which he save 3 of for a total of 4/5 kills but lets say i get lucky and he fails all his saves for 7/8 kills. he then attacks back with 28 S4 attacks for 7 wounds of which i pass 2 saves. even if i win he is stubborn and has just taken out 1/3 of my unit in a single round if combat and his unit is cheaper. I did actually win but only thanks to ASF, WS10 chaos knights (hurray for 3rd eye)
Although i think WoC are still good they will never win any tournaments and if you are up against a decent player you will have a hard time winning
Right now they are prob ranked 5th after high elves, lizardmen, skaven and daemons but i can see them slipping to one of the bottom ranks as the new books get updated for 8th ed and we will have a long wait for our new book. even O&G who i wld hammer i am now loosing to as i cant get passed there inane amount of S7 armour piercing attacks the black orcs put out or even the S5 savage orcs and looking at the new tomb kings we are going to have a hard time winning as i can see lists with 50+ skellies with WS6 and killing blow (not putting my knights anywhere near them).
7th edition tactics do not belong in 8th edition. we are no longer the close-combat gods we were, we have to pick our fights alot more carefully and refuse the fights that favor our opponents. People think that because of steadfast that knights are no longer viable, well that just isn't true. They are the perfect unit for mopping up the small screening units or those we have blasted with magic/hellcannon. Terrain isn't what it was, and many pieces of it can negate steadfast if you deploy stratigically. and typically hordes have a bad statline, and we have access to spells and items that can force a test on that stat or they die.
There has only been 1 new book released and from what I understand it is in no way a superpower. while the new TK is going to give them a boost, its really hard that they could have made that army worse. Killing blow isn't as big of a deal now with how many ward saves you can get (or how many 3+ wards WE can get), and skelitons are still just bones wich we can grind to a pulp. To say we are fated to bottom tier is just silly. Learn the new rules and how to use them to your advantage and you will be surprized with what you can acomplish.