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Thread: Myth busting

  1. #1
    Member Maximus-Prime's Avatar
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    101 (x3)

    Myth busting

    I thought it might be a good idea to open up a topic where people can post things that they believe are not being used correctly.
    Common mistakes, faulty translations, old habits, wishful thinking etc.

    I'll start:

    Chaos Knights + Flaming banner does not stack.
    Reason: Knights have Ensorcelled weapons, those count as magic weapons.
    "Any spells cast by the model are unaffected, as are attacks with magic weapons they might be wielding" from the BRB.


    Hero with Favor in a unit gets to alter the EotG's roll for the entire unit.
    Reason: The Favor states that "after rolling on the table, the bearer may alter HIS roll by 1". No where does it say he may alter the entire units roll. So the unit is stuck with the first result, the hero can change that for him personally.

    I'm sure there are allot more things, so post them here!

    My WoC assembly/paint log! check it out. UPDATED 03-11-'11!
    Check out my guide on how to make Treekin.
    Please feel free to correct my spelling.

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  3. #2
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    2052 (x8)

    Pulled this from the FAQ.

    Q. If the Favour of the Gods enchanted item is given to the
    champion of a unit of Chosen, can the unit benefit from it when it
    makes its roll in the Eye of the Gods table
    before the game? And
    when it makes a roll thanks to a Chaos Warshrine? (p115)
    A. Yes.

    I'm just being devils advocate here. If the 'unit' gets to benefit from favour on the unit champion, why not when it's on a hero? I'm not talking about the Chosens initial roll here, I'm talking about from a warshrine as if affects all models in the unit.

  4. #3
    Member Maximus-Prime's Avatar
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    101 (x3)

    I'm glad you said that Borak, now we can get a discussion going! (point of the thread).

    I would argue that's because the Champion is an upgrade for the unit (he in turn is upgraded with the Favor).
    He is a part of the unit, he cannot leave the unit. He is part of the majority, an upgrade from that majority.

    A hero is a separate entity, he can leave, he can join other units etc. He has nothing to do with the Chosen, up until he decided to join that unit.

    A shrine buffs the unit, the hero is lucky he is able to bask in the glory bestowed upon the men. If he leaves, his gift stays right there in that blessed unit.

    If I look at the rules, there is nothing that indicates to me a Hero would be able to alter it for the entire unit, it doesn't say that anywhere.


    How do the rest of you guys see this?
    My WoC assembly/paint log! check it out. UPDATED 03-11-'11!
    Check out my guide on how to make Treekin.
    Please feel free to correct my spelling.

  5. #4
    Senior Member Papa_Wheely's Avatar
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    I have always played it that if Favor is in the unit at the time that a gift is bestowed then you can modify it. Think of it as that person (character or Chosen champion) attracting more attention from the gods, and so the gods make better care to give a gift that will be useful instead of just blithely granting a mutation. If the gods a paying attention to a special person in a given unit, then they are paying special attention to the unit itself. That being said, it is given to the unit, and so for gaming purposes (to make things simpler) the character only has the gift for as long as he is with the unit.

    Maybe that is a little convoluted, but that is how I always thought of the matter

  6. #5
    Drill Sergeant Lord Borak's Avatar
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    2052 (x8)

    I think you could read it both ways. You could probably use different items to support both cases.

    On one you have the way Maximus puts it. That the Exalted affects his roll and only his roll. I mean Favour isn't exactly a well described item in the rules but it does sound like it was intended for his and only his roll. Although I'm not sure the chaps who wrote the army book considered this sort of problem.


    On the other hand you have the FAQ which says that the unit champion can alter the whole units roll. Now the item only says "his roll" so (before the FAQ) you could have said that the chosen unit gets the roll on the dice and only the champion gets to alter the roll with Favour. Now we have the FAQ it seems if a 'person' in the unit has favour and the 'unit as a whole' is affected then you can alter the whole roll for the unit, not just that one person.

    You could argue that the champion 'is part' of the unit as he is a upgrade but, to me, a character joining the unit is part of that unit. For example, if that dude has Magic resistance does that not protect the whole unit?

  7. #6
    Member Maximus-Prime's Avatar
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    That is a good point.
    Don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it that the Exalted can alter it for the unit.
    But the guys at my club are a bit more strict.

    I think this might be a good idea to mail/call the rules trolls about. Al tho we all know they don't know the rules that well.

    Keep the arguments/cases coming!
    My WoC assembly/paint log! check it out. UPDATED 03-11-'11!
    Check out my guide on how to make Treekin.
    Please feel free to correct my spelling.

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    Senior Member Papa_Wheely's Avatar
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    I would love to see a definitive ruling on two scenarios, Titillating Delusions and how the Monster Reaction Table interacts with the Hell Cannon's Rampage rule.

    For example, I think I got shafted the other day with Titillating Delusions. I had a unit of 10 Knights to the left of a horde of Great Weapon Marauders. Directly opposite my knights was a unit of Knights of the realm (with a static combat res kitted BS and to their right (from my perspective) a unit of 10 Questing Knights. I cast Delusions on the Questing Knights, and angled them to get in front of the Knights of the Realm. He was able to get a long charge off with the KotR, which I understand is legal because the Charge phase is before the remaining moves phase. However, it was ruled that, because the Charge phase is before remaining moves, that the Questing Knights could charge my Horde of Marauders in the front instead of be forced to my left and set up for a flank charge from my Marauders. My argument was that since he has to either A) move as fast towards that point as possible or charge a unit on that path, he could not charge my Marauders because that would preclude him doing either A or B. I was over ruled, and because of that most of my units were not in position to help and so I lost the game. I think I got screwed though. Does anyone have a definitive answer on this?

    Also, how does the Hell Cannon interact with the Monster Reaction Table. For example, I lost the crew of a Hell Cannon to High Elf bow fire in one game, and rolled up Stupidity on the table. Does this mean that I have to pass two tests (one for Stupidity and one for Rampage) before I can act normally? If so, in what order are they taken? Does this mean that the Hell Cannon can move a up to 4D6 (3D6 for Rampage and one for Stupidity)? Does Stupidity replace Rampage? And what if I roll the "i'm not going anywhere, I'm going to sit here on my handlers' dead bodies and laugh" GGRRRR reaction? Does that mean that I no longer have to test for Rampage at all, and that he can start raining down shots at will? Or does Rampage still apply? Does it apply in a curtailed form (eg, has to pass the test to shoot, but if it is failed does not move)?

    I feel that the second is much more of a grey area than the first, but nonetheless, both are areas of confusion for a lot of players. It is probably hoping for too much, but I would love to have a definitive answer for these issues

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    Senior Member Lolthien's Avatar
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    I was under the impression that the hellcannon was TECHNICALLY a monster, and when it's crew is killed it rolls on its OWN ld, which is much lower than the dwarves. So it is simply much more likely to Rampage every turn without them.

    I don't think it takes a monster reaction test at all.

    [EDIT] Just read the one paragraph where it says it follows the rules for a Monster and handlers. So apparently I've been playing this wrong Nevermind me

  10. #9
    Member Maximus-Prime's Avatar
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    I have been consistently rolling the frenzied result, so I never had this discussion.
    But I would say that the Rampage test should be taken first each turn.

    I do think you got shafted that game.
    His knight would have to go to that one spot, forgetting everything else.
    Unless your unit was between him and the end spot, he cannot make that charge.
    My WoC assembly/paint log! check it out. UPDATED 03-11-'11!
    Check out my guide on how to make Treekin.
    Please feel free to correct my spelling.

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