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I played a 2500pt game against demons and i had a hell of a time dealing with 2 hordes of bloodletters with skulltaker in one and a herald in the other. I will be playing him again next week and im sure he will be using this setup again. any advice would help. thanks.
keeper of secrets
30 bloodletters & skulltaker(with war banner)
30 bloodletters & herald (with the -2 ld banner)
20ish pink horrors & herald
i was using (from memory i don't have the list with me)
demon prince/MOT,level 1, stream of corruption,furry of the blood god
lv2 sorcer/MON, puppet
exhalted/MOK, bronze armor, halberd,chariot
30 marauders/full command, flails
2 units of 5 m. horsemen/MOK, LA, flails
15 warriors/MOK, full command, shield, halberd
first turn he kills my shaggoth with flickering fire(IF on 2 dice 7str6 hits) wounds my DP 3times with bolt of change and kills the horsemen with some magic from the Keeper so their goes my first turn combo charge against skulltakers unit with the shaggoth, DP, Chariot and flank with horsemen(that probably would have worked!) so after that first disastrous magic phase that unit and its twin pretty much ate the rest of my army.
Lore of Slaanesh.
The toughness test spell is AWESOME against Daemons. With only t3 and no MR saves against this spell, should level his unit quickly.
Combined with a Death mage with spell familiar, you have a good chance of getting Soulblight (-1 str -1T means toughness 2! ) and DnD for use in combat.
Slaanesh also gives you a Frenzy spell.
The "you cause fear, and the enemy must take a ld test before they can attack you" spell even saved my behind from a Bloodthirster!
He rolled a 12 for his ld test = no attacks my way = crumble from static.
Nice in combo with DnD
Marauders didn't work so well against Daemons for me.
One big unit to hide your mage in and be steadfast (only 5 wide), give them Slaanesh or Tzeentch (5+ ward is nice, just don't frenzy these).
Khorne is waisted, they will loose combat. Plus you have a frenzy spell.
So are GW's/flails, most of his units are T3, I'd rather have a ward.
Exalted on foot, not on chariot.
Maybe one exalted with Dragon helm on disc, to take out those pesky flamers.
Drop the Horsemen, take more hounds (2-3 units).
For me, finesse units do not work against Daemons.
I think the Shaggoth is awesome, but hellishly overpriced.
I would take two Hellcannons, he has nice fat units to place that template in.
A flying stubborn 3+ ward Lord has been doing the trick. My opponent hates that guy, he can't get rid of it.
I use it to wrap around a flank, and take out some flamers/flesh hounds, and the pin a bloodletter unit in the flank.
Keep it there until I feel like dealing with it.
But don't be afraid of letting him know you really do not like playing his type of army (because it really isn't).
Maybe he will loosen up with the cheese the next time.
how many points is this?
1 unit of 15 warriors seems tiny
anyway dealing with bloodletters isnt too hard
1st take a horde or warriors (40) with MoT and shileds for a 5+ parry against killing blow (no characters in this unit)
then combine ur marauders into 1 unit of 50 and take festus (make sure festus is not going against skull taker though)
also drop the flails for great weapons
Against the big blocks of Daemons of doom have you considered a Disc Lord?
Give him the helm of command to make him stubborn and give him the Dragon helm for a 2+ Ward Vs Flaming attacks. This keeps him safe from the flamers and from skulltaker. Then give him what ever equipment you deem fit. He can happily charge skull takers unit and pin them in place all game leaving the rest of your army to pick on the rest of his force.
Just make sure you've got the BSB nearby to re-roll the inevitable LD9 fails.
Flamers aren't to scary when you use mystifying miasma on them to lower their BS.
just give a char dragonhelm or the dragongem and go for skulltaker, with a unit of warriors with shield and MoT
any other warrior unit with rupturous banner (for the -2 lead) it's awesome, specially if your BSB is in this unit, even if you have to roll snake eye's you have 44% chance on getting it (69 if BSB in near)
u unit of knights to go after the flamers, drop the horsemen and less marauders, more warriors
i wouldn't take trolls or festus, cause of the flamers, tzeentch, fire and metal spell he could take
wouldn't take slaanesh magic either, just go for fire, tzeentch or shadows
i would drop the DP and the lvl 2 and take a lvl 4 heavens or shadows, let him reroll al his 6's haha bye KB
thanks for the advice i have disk character to put together so i will probably give that and some shadow magic a try. i will also drop the marauders and add more warriors. i like the marauders but they just don't do the trick for demons. That was actually the first time my DP has been killed in the 8 games ive played him in, he is grossly over priced but has been great for me.
I'd actually say to drop the DP for a Disc Lord, as suggested. Also, T3 Bloodletters really hate the Shadow/Nurgle combo- knock them down to S1 or T1, then hit them with Curse of the Leper to take them all the way to 0 and boom, 29 dead Bloodletters. Shadows also combos well with the Slaanesh spell that Maximus mentioned.
Another thing that I've learned about Daemons, is that they really hate it when you beat them at their own game. For example- sending a Champion in and chellenging the Skulltaker. Well, that stinks that your Champion's a goner, but if he refuses, you send Skully to the back. At the least, it keeps him AWAY from your super-killy-character, which is where he wants to be. Then enter the beatstick...
19 Chosen w/ Halberds, MoK, Favor and Wailing combo (gunning for +1A), fielded 10 wide and 2 deep. BSB Character goes on the outside of the regiment, preferably with some heinously overpowered ability to just crush face (Stream of Corruption, MoK, AddHw, etc).
Altogether you should be cranking 40-50 S5 attacks to the front. Add that to their having +3SCR for their rank and both banners, you should be seeing Instability checks quite quickly. As for worrying about Steadfast Daemons... don't, after 50 attacks, I assure you that he won't still have 3 ranks.
Pair this with Miasma from Shadows to drop the enemy Iniative so that they swing behind you, and you're doing just fine.
The alternative is always to run hefty regiments of MoT Sword'n'boards to stare down the opposing Letters long enough to peg their flanks with another regiment of super-killy Warriors and a Character.
You can also swap your Shaggoth for a Slaneshi Giant. Basically, he either wins combat (Yell and Bawl, autowin by 2, no blows struck), or brutally mauls the Daemon unit, or just shoves the Skulltaker down his britches. He works well against a flank though, since he's lacking in the armor department, and you need to be careful of ST's Heroic KB.
All in all, your list is running real heavy on Characters and Monsters, and you're a little lacking in the number of available Warriors. How many points did you say this game was?
deamons have pretty good dispel power, and a 5+ ward on everything.
Take lots of warriors with MoT and shield so you get 5+ ward vs killing blows and a 3+as before strength modifiers.
have you considered lore of heavens? the re-roll 6s to hit, wound and for armour saves is really good against killing blow and poison armies, since they have to roll 6 then 6 again to get poison or KB off and then your MoT warriors would have a 5+ save vs that.
You have inititiative as well with warriors and the bloodletters are only T3, take a unit of warriors with halberds and mark of khorne, or mark of tzeentch for a 6+ and banner of rage, if he has hordes they wont be very maneuverable and you could easily get both units of warriors into one of them and tear them up.
I think that this little army list would trump any nasty deamon player, thinking he is going to have a nice easy day.
Chaos Lord mark of tzeentch(+1 to wardsave), talisman of preservation
(4+ wardsave), helm of many eyes (always strikes first), sword of anti
heroes (+1s+1a for each enemy hero in base contact) 320
Sorcerer Lord (lore of shadow, favour of the gods (allows movement of
+/- 1 on eye of the gods) , infernal puppet )+/- d3 to any miscast
result) , charmed shield (2+ wardsave agaisnt first hit)
Exaulted Hero mark of tzeentch, BSB, banner of rage(gives entire unit
frenzy even if beaten in combat), halberd 184
4 Warshrines (each one allows a unit a free roll on the eye of the
gods table - if you roll the same result twice you get a reroll) 520
63 Chaos Warriors in horde formation (halberds, mark of tzeentch,
standard, musician, wailing banner (causes terror - two of the eye of
the gods results can be rerolled due to this item)
The plan is pretty simple
1) buff the unit (and characters at the same time) massively with the
warshrines, and using the favour of the gods and wailing banner it
should allow for a bit of fixing to be sure of getting good results on
the eye of the gods table- rerolling the shrines every turn until one
of them produced the 3+wardsave and stubborn result.
2) Chomp up every single thing we come into contact with. The chaos
lord should prove to be an absolute monster in close combat with enemy
heroes (7 s6 asf attacks with rerolls - and thats before we have even
considered the warshrines contributions) while the shadow sorcerer can
hex enemies to further weaken them and the bsb provides everybody with
frenzy and rerolls on the beserker rage test (just in case anybody
tries the old runaround trick)
Only 2 warshrines allowed at 2500.