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A few days ago me and some friends were discussing the latest trend for magic items in the new armybooks. I know it is going to be some time yet before the next edition of warriors of chaos comes out but we were thinking when it does we are obviously going to lose quite a few magic items and those we have will be condensed down to about 8 to 10 in total. So I ask you this. What items would you like to see kept in the next version of Warriors of Chaos and how would you like to see them changed.
My selection was:
Daemonsword - Would like to see it double the base attacks of the bearer as they draw on the fury of the daemon trapped inside but as before all to hit rolls of a 1 are resolved against the bearer. Have it about 80pts.
Chaos Runeblade - As is now. This weapon is one of the best going. 50pts
Crimson Armour of Dargan - As is now so immune to killing blow and multiple wounds. 30pts
Helm of Many Eyes - Would like to see this become armour granting a 6+ armour save as well as ASF and stupidity. 30pts
Favour of the Gods - As is now but confers a 5+ ward save as well. However if the bearer falls back they are removed from play. 20pts
Infernal Puppet - I personally think this should be a one use only item but be made so that the bearer alters the miscast (either their own or any enemy spellcasters) by D6 in either direction and make it cheaper say 25pts.
Skull of Katam - As is, this is iconic, it will always be there. 50pts
Banner of the Gods - As is, it works well for what you pay for it. 125pts
Banner of Rage - As is but if the unit already has the Mark of Khorne then they gain the Swiftstrider rule as well. 40pts
Banner of Wrath - As is but allow the hits to be used in combat as well. 50pts
Last edited by Jared van Kell; August 9th, 2011 at 15:03.
Basically life sucks, there is only war and you're probably gonna get eaten by Tyranids, have fun.
I'll bet we wind up keeping more than some other armies because there will be a few items dedicated to a specific god. For example, Ax of Khorne, Glaive of Putrefaction, Whip of Subversion, and the Sword of Change. Beyond that, Favor, for sure, probably Puppet (but with some changes) and I'm hoping for Book of Secrets. So I think we will have more, but still take a big cut. But those I think are pretty safe bets
Considering chaos armor is iconic for WoC I'd say either the armor of morr or armor of damnation will stay, or maybe just zhrak. It just seems silly not to offer magical armor to chaos warriors.
Def gone in that category though (imo) would be skinhidden armor and the runeshield.
As awesome as the glave is I think they would keep the mace of filth over it, not because it's better but because of the fear of all those awesome sphinx's going 2-2. It seems to me that it's better to nerf awesomeness as opposed to keeping it.
Favor imo should stay as is, that's if they keep eotg all together or don't just silly it up.
I will drink your milk shake! I will drink it up!
I just bought my wife a mini-van, the gods of Chaos have nothing on reality.
well what i wld hope for is:
puppet to stay the same, maybe make it and enchanted item
favour will stay but with a modification to the EoTG
chaos runeshield and sword will stay
the demon sword will hopefully change so maybe +D6 attacks and Strength but all so count as flaming, and 1's hit bearer, 95points
khorne -+1 attack instead of frenzy so it can be used in tournaments
It will come down to what items have been kicking around for years, and are considered too imporant to leave out.
Daemonsword and runesword have long been part of the chaos armoury so I would imagine them staying.
I reckon axe of khorne should be 75 points but gives heroic killing blow on a 5+ like skulltaker- now that would be a worthy weapon for a chaos champion.
Armour of damnation or runeshield would likely be the armour choices.
Not sure on the talismans, as they have changed alot over the years - perhaps we will not get one at all, since the talisman of preservation is pretty damn good anyway.
Arcane items, again are something I am not really sure what they will leave in - the puppet is a relatively new one and is known to be quite powerful so is unlikely to stay (or if it does then it will be reduced in power or raised in points) though out of all the items we have that is the one thing that I would really like to stay.
Bannerwise, the rapturous standard has lurked around in different guises over the years but so have the banner of the gods ,the banner of rage and the blasted standard so it could be any of those four- I just hope they dont screw us over like in the orc and goblin book where all of their magic banners are only possible to have as an army standard.
Whatever happens, there will not be anywhere like as much good stuff, so our main boosts will come from either wizards or other characters in the unit. Hopefully we might get a lower points cost hero (like the old aspiring champion, or maybe even a really cheap marauder hero) so we can take a few of the core magic items like a bit of magic resistence to protect the warriors.
Why are we worried about this? I highly doubt that we'll be getting another book for a long time. At least not until 9th rolls around (no joke).
Going by the typical pattern, we're going to get hit hard all the way across the book, so a lot of our items are going to lose relevance entirely. For example, I'm expecting Marauders to change in their points costs, maybe not even offer them GWs any more (remember- the more they change in our collections, the more models we have to buy to 'fix' our army), and I imagine that units like Chaos Ogres will suddenly become amazing, while Knights and Chosen get the bat.
As far as items that I'd like to see stay- basically all the ones we know they're going to get rid of:
Book of Secrets - they have a Common Hat now that does it for 100pts, our better 25pt item is out the window.
3rd Eye - not a magic item, but it's toast, on the grounds that it's probably too cheesy.
Anything that we're seeing banned all over the world in the GTs, or hit on the Comp charts, is going to get either nerfed or removed entirely.
Otherwise, I'm with everyone else- our worthless magic weapons and armor will stay, we'll get to keep a few banners but they'll practically double in price or we'll lose the option to pick up 50pt banners with our Warriors/Knights, and we might get to hang on to some of our more useless Enchanted items and Talismans. That, or we'll get a host of god-specific items, which although they might include some of the things we've had in prior books, will now be relegated to characters of a certain alignment. Likewise, I expect that our powers will do the same.
I also imagine that our marks are going to go back to the way they were in past editions, where you see more mono-god armies because the characters are only able to join like-marked units. Although I'll be happy to see Nurgle change from -1WS/BS to something like Stubborn or +1T. Slaanesh will probably go full bore ItP or it will replace our current 'Will of Chaos' rule. Tzeentch's +1 to cast might actually stay, although the Wardsave modifier is out the window, especially in conjunction with the Parry save. Khorne will either get some type of Hatred, or keep Frenzy- they aren't going to give us +1A without a catch.
Finally, it remains to be seen how the rest of the armybooks come out in 8th edition. Currently, WoC and Lizardmen were the most balanced armies in 7th, and really represent the middle of the armybook power creep. Current armybooks (and the nerfing of the 2 books that were better than ours- VC and DoC), seem to be falling under that band, which is going to earn us a reputation for Cheese and all sort of bad rep. We'll probably see the same kind of nerf-bat treatment that the other two armies did. Which will be entertaining as all hell, considering that our current book is written to be utterly watertight and exploit free. It's farfetched, but I wouldn't be surprised to see FullPlate/Chaos Armor phased out by 9th edition.
there are other armies that are much more broken that warriors
1) high elves with ASF not to mention all the cheesy items and characters they have
2) skaven with there shooting etc
3) dark elves with nearly everything in there book being under pointed and the unkillable dreadlord
4) lizardmen with the broken salamanders, and nearly everything within 12" of the slaan being pretty much unbreakable
warriors are probably the most balanced army in 8th, apart from the cheesy chosen there is not 1 thing in our army that is broken
right now i am loving 8th ed as its balanced nearly every army out
You forgot to add deamons into the broken pile - they might have been slightly reduced in power this edition but are still more then a match for most people.
Remember- it's armies that are truly unbalanced, not armies that we have a hard time facing down. Skaven are a pretty average army- if they "gunline up" they play and die just like Empire. The nasty thing with Skaven is that they are a tad more points-efficient than Empire, and they can field something for every unit type. Big scary gun? Check. Big scary monster? Check. and so on.
As I high elf player, I can't say that our book is particularly amazing. Everyone still cries over ASF, but put it this way- it counts as having 1.5x the number of attacks shown on our profile, and a higher Initiative than you. And when we're paying double the amount we probably should be for a model that's hardly better than an Empire Spearman (S3, T3, Sv5+) we're pretty limited. And what cheesy items? We have Teclis, and a 100pt book that makes us IF on doubles. Ok, and the banner for Immune to Spells, which hurts us too thanks to not being able to cast Regrowth on whatever unit carries the flag.
Dark Elves - under pointed? I'd say that Dark Elves were too cheap last edition, but now they're pretty spot on. I'd rank Dark Elves up with being a pretty fair armybook at the moment. A lot of their best stuff got tossed down the drain- what's giving you problems these days? The Hydra? And that Dreadlord is far from unkillable. Seriously, he's T3, hit him with Dwellers- it doesn't have a Strength and he has a 2/3 chance of dropping dead right then and there. And I know, Chaos doesn't have Dwellers, but that goes back to the "nobody can beat it, or is it just your army?"
Lizardmen?? Really?? I'll put them at dead-even with Warriors and trust me, the LM player I face is no dope. They've got their weaknesses. Sure, running in and just slugging your way through with Warriors doesn't work like it does for most armies, but if you want to know how most people feel when they're up against Chaos Warriors, go up against Lizardmen. They're I1 and I2 on all their best stuff, Purple Sun is game-ending for them. Their Saurus aren't any better than a block of MoK'd up Warriors with their spears, and I'd still even give the edge to our guys rockin' the +1A from Frenzy, just because we're I5 and don't lose attacks when we hit 2 ranks.
Anyways, each of those armies is up for a new book before we are. With the exception of Daemons, who yes, can field some really broken armies. However, look at each of those books and try to build a competitive list that you'd take to a tournament without including the big nasties. It's pretty hard to do, they're one-dimensional because the rest of their book is terrible. Try explaining to the Elves that they've only really got 4 unit options: Spearmen, Seaguard, Phoenix Guard, and Swordmasters. They'll whine and try to field Lion Chariots or something stupid like that. Warriors are balanced, there's nothing they can do to the core rules that would make our current armybook any less awesome. And that's what's going to give us problems. The book was solid in 7th, it's going to be great in 8th, because we seemed tailor-made for this environment. Why do you think Warriors are one of the most active forums on LO right now? Everybody plays them.
speaking solely to the Dark Elves stuff... I gotta agree. Hydras are tough, but against knights with flaming attacks, or fire magic, they go down quick.
And I've been lucky enough to get dogs on the Reverse Wardsave lord, and it took her down... eventually.