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So I play tested my campaign army list yesterday and I pretty much went toe to toe with my friends lizzardmen but probably would have ended up loosing in the end just based on his slann and his lore of life spells. How do you mitigate a slann's magic phase when he gets plus one to cast life spells with his ancient stegadon ability, an extra power dice every spell he throws, and cupped hands? Any help would be appreciated.
This is, in general, a harsh combination and there is little that can be done, sadly. Frankly, I think the best way to beat it is to ask your friend nicely if he would mind toning his list down a bit to be fair to everybody else in the campaign. ;-)
Joking aside though, it's really tough.
Some general tactics: get into combat with him as fast as you can, and lay the smack-down on him. You can't beat him in the magic phase unless you play him at his own game - Dwellers Below hurts a Slann as much as it hurts anybody else (his unit will probably be relatively unharmed though). Better still, if you can get Pit of Shades on him/his unit, that would be really helpful. But chances are, he can shut down your magic phase too, and this sort of tactic relies on luck (getting first turn, IF on the spell - many dice rolls need to be good in order to beat him this way).
What are you using? If you can outline your army list, or give an idea of your available models I might be able to suggest a couple of things more specifically.
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - 2008)
For my campaign list, I have a lvl 4 sorcerer lord of Tzeentch, Exalted BSB with book, dispel, third eye and shadow, 1 unit of 21 MOK warriors with AHW, 1 Unit of 22 warriors with MOTz, 40 Marauders with GW and MOK, and 5 trolls. I had to design this list to fight cities and walls as well as open battle field. He had an ancient stegadon, one mondo unit of 40 saurus, temple guard and slann, 3 salamanders, 12 skinks with blow pipes, 6 chameleon skinks. Basically I killed off his entire saurus block in one turn with a flank charge, my mauraders were a tar pit for the stegadon but I couldn't hurt him because he was T10 with flesh to stone, and I killed off his templeguard down to two and wounded his slann twice but then he regrew his temple guard to the point I couldn't attack the slann, and regrew all of his wounds...Just flat out gay man. I was in combat with him on turn two...Not sure what else I could have done.
I think your best bet is to use Third Eye to nick his spells, and play him at his own game. It's a rubbish match-up to be fair, and most tournaments (at least in the UK) have house rules and army list restrictions to prevent this kind of ball-breaking idiocy.
Alternatively, try your hardest to gateway him off the table - he can't use Regrowth on a unit that is completely dead (once the last one dies, they're gone).
Sounds like what you did was about the best thing you could, it's just a shame the Lizards are so bent. I'd always try to dispel Throne of Vines where possible, since the other spells (annoying, yes) aren't nearly so bad without the augments. And he can only use Cupped Hands once IIRC, so I would chuck your dispels at Throne to stop him keeping Cupped Hands in reserve.
Seriously though, pretty much the only way to counter that particular build is to get people to just not use it (hence the heavy restrictions on it here). I think for most of the events (I should say the independent events, i.e. not the official GW ones), he is banned from using the extra dice, or Cupped Hands is banned, or something like that, to make it fair to everybody else.
Apologies I can't be more help.
It has yet to be proven that intelligence has any survival value. - Arthur C. Clarke (1917 - 2008)
Slaan are pretty good, but certainly not invincible.
Magic: Pit of Shades works pretty nicely, so does Fate of Bjuna.
Hellcannon: He is a big model, so pretty good chance of hitting him first round.
Combat: Wulfric him.
Items: Feedback Scroll.
Cheese: If you really really want him dead first turn, then take a level 4 Death Sorcerer in a block of Slaanesh marauders and equip him with a charmed shield/power scroll - then simply Purple Sun half the Lizardman army off the table. Use Puppet on another caster to mitigate any miscast damage, and charmed shield should protect against the first hit too.
“If you’re in the penalty area and don’t know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we’ll discuss the options later.” – Bob Paisley
Ive never had problems with life slann, i actually like when they take life because dwellers is so fun to put on them.
The trick to beating life is to save your dispel dice for throne of vines. This is the only spell you need to worry about, it makes all the rest of his spells really good, and lets him negate miscasts on a 2+
If you keep throne of vines off, the rest of the spells arent that scary, dwellers will always be dwellers, but d3 regrowth is WAY less effective then d6.
Also remember that throne is a remains in play, it can be dispelled at ANY point in subsequent magic phases. If he gets it off in one magic phase, at the very start of his next magic phase before he casts anything stop him and roll 2d6 and dispel it (in subsequent phases it only dispels on an 8+), this gets rid of it and forces him to throw more dice on recasting it, which you then attempt to dispel again. you can burn up at least 3-4 of his dice each phase this way.
also try a feedback scroll, that extra dice he uses counts towards his total rolled so its another dice that will wound him on a 5+
Best friend plays Lizardmen, and I routinely go up against some BROKE-@SS magic phases. Here's the deal- Cupped Hands is a One-Use deal. If you can get him to miscast, realize he's going to throw it at you, once he declares, pop the Puppet and keep the damage to a bare minimum. It's his miscast, he has to declare if he's shunting it before you react.
Feedback Scroll is alright, but Slann typically have a lot more wounds than a Feedback is going to kick back at him. Your best bet for downright killing him is to smack him with Dwellers, the WitherCurse combo, or Pit/Pendulum/PurpleSun- just realize his Ini is actually a bit higher than a typical lizardman's, I3-4 I think.
With my friend I usually let him have his fun in the magic phase. The only things I need to stop are maybe Dwellers considering it can kill 1/3 of a regiment at a time. It really depends on what he's throwing it at, and if he's planning to pop Regrowth into a serious combat. I also make it a point to knock out Throne in my own phase- he's going to knock down my casting dice, but I want him to burn dice trying to cast Throne later. There's no sense in stopping it either. I've actually found that tossing dice at stopping Thrones (2 dice +1 for him, with a +5 to casting = 15.5 average CV, means we need 3.2 dice with a L4 to stop it) Basically, he's always going to burn through more of our Dispel dice than he uses to cast it in the first place, and that's not good- he has more dice than us already thanks to the idiocy of 8th edition's magic format.
Early game, think about it- you only really have to stop one spell as you cross the field: Dwellers. After you get into combat, he's going to most likely start throwing Regrowth or F2S on his own guys if you keep the pressure on. If you keep forcing him to cut dice on casting Throne at the start of each phase, you're achieving two things:
1- giving him an extra chance to drop the ball and miss casting anymore spells with his Slann
2- burning his Powerdice down to a manageable level.
Think about it- would you rather stop Throne and let him get Dwellers or a boosted Regrowth/F2S through, or would you rather let him sit pretty with his miscast protection and spare your DD for stopping his casting altogether? Especially if he's still got Cupped Hands lying around, because he's going to toss as many dice as he feels like it, come hell or high water. Statistically, tossing 6 dice a turn at 1 spell, he's got less than a 1/6 (5/36) chance of getting an IF anyways.
Playing WoC is all about "rolling with it". You have to accept that we're going to get beaten up by either the shooting or the magic phase on our way across the table. Not much we can do about it. So we need to focus on where the larger threats are, and deal with those. Neutralizing a Slann takes an act of God. You need kill him in combat (Wulfrik, if he's not Ethereal) or slam him with a spell, which requires a good roll plus him letting the spell through. Better off just killing the other 1500pts of his army and letting him do what he wants. This is why I've learned that when fighting against LM, you need be doubly sure that you pile on more hurt than he's prepared to deal with in a turn.
Good points, although I have to put more value into throne then dwellers, dwellers is a huge cost for the 24" one as the regular is only 12" range, and throne buffs all his other spells, but thats all just opinion! Also to consider when it comes to big spells like Dwellers you can use smaller units, i use units of 12 warriors, this makes each target not as tempting. 1/3 of an 18 man unit is ~6 whereas he would average 4 from a 12 man unit, makes the spell a little less effective.
Another thing to consider is Wulfrik. He can force a Slann to accept a challenge. There was much debate about this at my club, but after much rules and fact checking, it is completely legal for a slann to accept a challenge. Even though he is in the second rank, a challenger does not have to be in base contact with a challengee' only his unit, therefor if Wulfrik is in contact with the templeguard unit you can force the slann to fight him, so if you name him as your target your going to kick the crap out of him pretty easily unless the Lizardmen player has taken the ethereal option, BUT not many people will take the ethereal option on a slann in a unit of templeguard. PLus you could take a level 4 fire wizard and just get flaming sword off on Wulfrik to make his attacks magical.