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Hey guys! Was curious what your thoughts were on playing units of WoC in MSU style?
We all know we have quite expensive but elite core units. We don't need as many units to really win in combat. But also taking too many makes useless back row units that do nothing for rounds of combat, or just makes ablative wounds to compensate for what dies on the way down the board. So I was thinking...taking more units MSU style gives more threats on the board, guards flanks easier, and gives more/harder choice targets for our opponents. It also makes spells that target and wipe out units less effective...I had Dreaded 13th cast on me once and it took our 16/18 of my warriors...leaving 2 alone useless. Now it will wipe out 12 if they roll that 16 again taking out the whole group of warriors but now I have 2 other groups of 12.
2x Groups of 18 Warriors of Chaos
3x Groups of 12
Maybe even 2x groups of 25 Marauders vs 1x group of 40-50. Yes they will probably wipe out a group of them fairly easily (I run them Khorne + GW) but now there is more threats on the table. I normally make it to the other side with about 25ish Marauders left anyways. This just opens up the threat radius and makes it harder to wipe out your threats all at once.
Anyone ever experiment with this playstyle? What are your guys thoughts on this?
I have tried the 3x12 man unit, and it is too inefficient point-wise for my taste. Same goes for the 20 man marauder unit. Almost every time I've tried it, I have lost badly.
Standard Unit Sizes:
Warriors: 18 [usually 2 units] - MoT/Eternal Flame, MoN/Rage
Marauders: 50 [one mostly] - MoK/GWs
Chosen: 18 [replaces a warrior unit sometimes] - MoK/Swiftness [these guys have made bearded men squeal in fear like a schoolgirl]
Trolls: 6 [preferably with Throgg]
Knights: 10 [preferably with a +3WS exalted inside] - MoT/Blasted
Hounds: 5 [2 per army works nicely]
Warshrine: 1 [sometimes 2] - MoT
“If you’re in the penalty area and don’t know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we’ll discuss the options later.” – Bob Paisley
I suggest using your search feature. I'll do it for you. Turns out that I asked this same question about 7 months ago. Here's what we were hearing back then:
http://www.librarium-online.com/foru...ml#post1786117 (MSU Chaos Warriors: thoughts?)
To sum it all up though: small units of Warriors are usually a bad idea. You should be able to fit in 3 regiments of 15-18 Core Warriors in any list, if you can't, it's because you're either focusing on Marauders, or because you're too busy taking Chosen, Knights, Cannons, or way too many Characters. Warriors excel at what they do, we're already the elites on the table, our Chosen are pretty worthless. I tend to start out every 2500pt list with the same three Warrior units, and then pad it out from there.
When I ran my MSU army, it was 25% Warriors all fielded in units of 10-12, followed up by 3 units of Chosen, 6 strong, and 3 units of Forsaken, 5-6 strong. That's genuine MSU as most of us remember from back in the day. Surprisingly, it worked extremely well in 7th edition, but now that we're in 8th it hardly helps at all.
Warriors are expensive, taking multiple units means that you should drop your commands, because face it; +1CR isn't helping when you've only got 10 guys in contact, and if/when you break, you're losing a good chunk of your unit. Plus, putting commands in 5 units is more expensive than just 2-3. Ditto the Marks, Marks will really start chewing up your points in an MSU list, and your best two are actually Slaanesh (to avoid more common Panics) and Khorne (ignore Panic, extra attacks, WAY TOO EXPENSIVE)
The next problem that you have: 2 types of games-
1 Standard Pitched Battles - battles run on VP, and splitting your units into small blocks makes it easier for your enemy to net VPs for killing just a handful of Warriors. Back to your Skaven example, yes, he killed off all but 2 of your Warriors, but he didn't get the points for that unit. I had a game where horrible miscasts left me with 3 Halberds out of a unit of 18, on turn 2. They limped away and hid behind a building all game, and actually managed to survive, thereby saving me their 350+ points cost.
2 Blood and Glory - I just explained that you don't want to take flags in your units. So what's your break-point look like?
My worst experience with MSU style lists: My Lizard-playing friend dropped a comet in the font/middle of my lines, forcing me to march by it. He boosted it, it dropped in my next magic phase. D6 S6 hits to every unit? Yeah, there goes just about everything in my army. I called the game, moved my units back to where they started, and tried again. This time, I made it across the board, but he had 2 Stegadons go rampaging through my units, breaking up my lines so that I couldn't double-charge him like I had intended, so I was left with 6 Warriors against 18 Saurus, you can imagine how that went for me. Yeah, I won the first round on wounds, but after that I didn't have enough models left to survive another round, let alone kill anything.
I've settled on unit sizes roughly the same as Antithesis, with the exception that I think Chosen are a waste of 3pts/model, so I just field them as Warirors, with Festus when he's allowed, in the "will it blend" configuration. Also, Antithesis, you run a strange list.