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Ok guys, I am playing vampire counts next weekend at 3000 pts and I know nothing about them. What do I need to bring, what should I look out for? Also, if he brings his undead dragon how do I kill it?
If he brings his undead dragon, chuckle. The Zombie Dragon is a pretty awful way for a VC player to use his points. The competitive list usually revolves around massive blocks of Ghouls and Grave Guard (with a Wight King BSB ), with the occasional Skeleton unit for a particular magic banner, a Varghulf, the occasional Terrorgheist, and an assortment of Vampires and Necromancers.
The main thing to keep in mind (this is a common theme among Undead armies) is that they are supremely character-centric, so having any way to blow the Vampire up makes your job a LOT easier. Death sniper spells, the Infernal Puppet, throw a Horde at his Horde, whatever - just kill him, and the army will follow. If you're facing anyone bringing a remotely competitive list, you're going to want access to Flaming Attacks - The Drakenhof Banner is NASTY. Apart from that, your Marauders should chew his Ghouls up, and your Warriors should beat his Grave Guard, provided you brought fire. Bring something tough like a Warshrine to keep his Varghulf occupied, or just give him a taste of his own medicine with a Hellcannon. You should be fine - I think WoC matches up rather well with VC.
Last edited by rothgar13; September 11th, 2011 at 07:19.
Kill his vampire lord first if possible, once he's dead the rest of the army gradually crumbles into dust (leadership test per turn, fail = that number of wounds). Do NOT focus on killing his rank and file troops - they can easily be resurrected with 2 dice spells, and hordes of zombies can be summoned easily. As rohgar said, bring fire on one powerful unit and use them against the regeneraeting grave guard bunker where the vampir eis eniitably hiding. Same goes if he takes his lord in a bloodbus (same thing but with blood knights - realy nast cc potential). The best way to kill a zombie dragon for WoC, or any monster for that matter, is and exalted with the glsive of putrefaction and a potion of strength. Maybe with a charmed shield for extra survivability. 4 s8 attacks (5 with khorne) is not something to be scoffedat, especially at init 7(?). 1 wound, and whatever you're hitting goes down to s and t 2, good against both the dragon and the vampire riding it.
Varghulfs are fast (flying), regenerate and are no sloughes in combat, though most other monsters can kill it with ease. My favourite was the hellcannon, which killed a varghulf over 2 turns of combat and only lost 1 wound. Against troops it can be deadly, though, with 5 hatred attacks, s5 and thunderstomp. Not very tough as monsters go (5), so fire magic might be useful.
“The ultimate philosophical question, “Am I human or machine” is answered by many people, “I don’t care, as long as I am”
- Myron Krueger
Rothgar pretty much said the main bits. If he has a 'competetive' list he'll have large ghoul units supported by Grave guard. Flanked by vargulfs and maybe e vena 'Bloodbuss' (a unit of 8 blood knights with hatred and maybe a Vampire or two in there as well).
The main 'strength' of an Undead army is attrition. They'll kill you and you'll kill them but they come back. If they can raise them faster than you can kill them then the end is nigh. So, if you can shut this down you'll have a much easier job of it as his Skellies are no match for a Marauder even though they are twice the points and his Grave guard are no match for warriors. To do this you'll need to shut down his magic and there are many ways of doing this.
The Black tongue, Infernal puppet, feed back scroll are all good examples of items to use. If he is a decent player he wont be getting his characters anywhere near combat so killing them off in challenges is easier said than done. If the opportunity presents itself however kill them.
Against Vargulfs flaming attacks are their bane and so are giants. Vargulfs are init2 so the giant will generally splat it before it gets a look in. Blood knights get splatted by warriors with halberds as we strike them first and they only have a 4+ save against str5 which is not that great. Always take a unit with the Flaming standard as there are a LOT of regenerating things in the Undead armies.
Lore of Death will serve you well against them, just roll up and pick off their general/vampire and it's pretty much won after that.
The Black Coach is annoying, but Knights generally do the job against it.
“If you’re in the penalty area and don’t know what to do with the ball, put it in the net and we’ll discuss the options later.” – Bob Paisley
If he is using a competitive list there will be as said 2 ghouls hordes 1 horde of Grave Guard with great weapons and bsb with regeneration banner. The vampire general will be in a unit of skeletons hidden at the back. Getting to this skeleton bunker is how you will win the game. Do not charge the grave guard until you have killed off the bsb with death magic (this is definitely the lore to take in this match) or if your unit has flaming attacks. The Grave Guard will be dishing out 3 ranks worth of s6 killing blow attacks probably with a unit banner giving them +1 to hit even warriors with shields will fall by the droves to this unit. The ghouls on the other hand will get destroyed by a frenzied unit with halberds in 2 rounds of combat after their crumbling.
The spell to be aware of is vanhel's danse macabre their number 2 spell they also have a bound spell for it. This is a necromancer spell so can be cast multiple time a turn. This lets an unengaed unit move 8 inches (this can cause a charge) or can target an engaged unit and give them ASF and re rolls failed to hit. Also be aware of raised zombies used for diverting charges.
Use death magic 3 snipe spells (although with ld10 vampires aren't really phased by signature spell) and take out the general or bsb as a priority but hitting other vamps to stop marching shouldn't be overlooked. Hit the ghouls to break through the horde line engage the bunker and show the Grave Guard death star due respect and you should win.
All this is assuming that he is using a competitive list.
Ok thanks guys, so I should take what, shadow and death for my two lores, or maybe throw in a lore of tzeentch for treason, infernal, and pandemonium? So my list should look like, sorcerer lord normal stuff, bsb exalted, sorcerer with the two death sniping spells, kitted out exalted for taking on vargufs, or other beasties, maybe on a disk? Warriors with halberds, mok and eternal flame, Warriors with HW/Shield/ MoT, hell cannon, trolls or no trolls? Large marauder unit, should I take wulferic?
VC is a bit of a mystery to me. They were hands down the most common army of 7th edition in my area, with over 50% of people either feilding VC or having a VC army at home.|
But the army became endangered since 8th dropped and I have only spotted them a few times, and I'm not entirely sure what is considered common for them anymore.
Generally speaking tho, VC are one of very few armies whose characters are on-par or even stronger than our own. Their statelines are comparible, they have access to old magic items (lots and some nice onces too), they get all kinds of stuff they shouldn't have with the new common items, and they "bloodline" upgrades which are similar to our gifts but better and they can take more. And they can pull all kinds of stupid stuff with this big of a pool of bonuses to pull out. The one game i did play against VC, one of his mages brought lore of beasts (knows all spells from the lore) and a power scroll. once he was in combat he used to scroll to cast the juicy version of transformation of kadon and blew the crap out of everything with his miscast AND transformed into a dragon and ate stuff. It would have been alot worse if i hadn't had the 3rd eye of tzeech and did the same thing myself the previous turn =P
So their characters are hawt and with the exception of a few options their troops are crap. Build your toops to destroy and your heros for defence.
In 7th edition vampires would spam 1 dice casting, 4+ their spell would go off and they would raise back their fallen troops. Now they spam with 2 dice or go for bigger spells. So for magic defense you will likely be dealing with multiple-castings of small spells. High level casters to dispel these and any other way you can figure to increase your DD. If you can get pandamonium off then his 2 dice spells have a real risk and he might risk going for 1.
He will bring a unit of renerating grave-guard with GW and KB, threre really isn't anything else in their list to be afraid of. well maybe blood dragons but no one uses them cause they are more expensive than chaos knights (and much better) and have a tendancy to explode if they wiff in combat.
I don't think shadow and death are your 2 best choices for vamps. Shadows is typic
Keep in mind Lore of Slaanesh or Khorne. All their units cause fear or terror.
Vargulfs are ridiculously difficult to kill and have flying.
Also, if you can, just kill all a unit. Skeletons are surprisingly expensive (which I guess reflects the fact they can be rezzed).